Project Debut III with Ortofon 2M Blue in need of new stylus - next steps?

Hi all,

I feel like I'm at the crossroads of what to do next and could benefit from some advice.

Background: Bought a Pro-Ject Debut III ~7 years ago, along with a Peachtree Audio Nova, a pre-amp that I've since replaced with a Pro-Ject Tube Box S, and a pair of Totem Mite Speakers.

Along the way, I bought a Pro-Ject Speed Box II, replaced the standard platter with an acrylic one, and upgraded to an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge.

After ~5 years of trusty service, the cartridge appears to be nearing the end of it's useful life (noticing a bit of harshness and degradation in sound quality).

I'm not quite sure what to do at this point: A) Replace stylus (spend $200 for sound no better than what I've had for the last 5 years); B) Upgrade to a better cartridge (More $$$, can I extract more from my system with a better cartridge, or have laws of diminishing returns caught up with me?); or C) Contemplate moving up market to a better turntable?

Interested in others thoughts who have similar systems, faced similar predicaments or have recommendations on where to go next turntable wise (or any other aspects of my chain I may wish to consider upgrading)...

Thanks!

Tyler

 

If you buy a new stylus from Thakker, it will cost you considerably less than paying retail here. Alternatively, again from him, you can buy a Bronze stylus for only a few bucks more than a Blue stylus would cost you here in the US. Improvement galore.

Ortofon 2 M / 2M Blue Stylus *NEW* | eBay

Ortofon 2 M / 2M Bronze Stylus suitable for 2M Bronze Cartridge *NEW* | eBay

 

I am in kind of the same situation but with an Xpression III, and the advice that Benzion gave about the Bronze is the route I am going to go when funds allow.

 

I've read that red/blue as a family are interchangeable (and the same goes for bronze/black). I wonder how much upside is being left off the table by mounting a bronze stylus to the blue body?

 

I thought that the bodies on the 2M red/blue and the 2M bronze/black were different, so the bronze stylus will NOT work with the red/blue cartridge.
Thakker ad on ebay says it fits all 4 cartridges, so maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me.

Keep 'em spinning
Bill

 

The shape of the styli are the same (not the shape of the needles), so physically they are interchangeable on the bodies (cartridges). But the red and blue share the same body and the Bronze and black share a different body.

You get the most out of a Bronze with the Bronze/Black body. That is the ideal way to go. There was somebody who put a Bronze stylus on a silver body (different than either the red/blue or bronze/black) and was pleased enough to run it that way for the time being. I have a silver body and may go that route, but I would prefer to have the Bronze stylus and body as intended... I will see what my pocketbook tells me to do when my stylus needs replacing.

 

There is a huge lot of threads here devoted to this particular topic. It's been discussed here a thousand times. But, here it is:

True enough, Red/Blue share a body with the same entrails. Bronze/Black share the same body as Red/Blue, but with different entrails. ALL styli of the 2M line are absolutely interchangeable, and will fit each other in any combination, physically, and will also work. However, as far as apparent improvement - opinions differ.

Ortofon discourages putting Bronze/Black styli on Red/Blue bodies. The reason is obvious - they want to sell the more expensive cartridges. They also give the rationale that "putting a Bronze stylus on a Blue body will not let you realize the full potential of the Bronze cartridge". Which is probably true, because of different coils/magnets.

However, people who have done so claim there's still a marked improvement with a Bronze stylus on a Red/Blue body over stock needle. It is NOT as good as the whole Bronze cartridge, but it is better than the stock Red/Blue. So - it's half-way. Some people are happy with getting some improvement at a reasonable cost. Others are perfectionists, and prefer the whole thing at a higher cost, even if it means waiting to put the funds together. The choice is yours to make.

As far as the Black goes - that's a whole different territory. Again, the Black stylus will fit any of the 2M bodies. But, this time both Ortofon, and the majority (not all) of users reporting here discourage using Black at all unless your table has precise VTA and azimuth adjustments. Black is finicky and is unforgiving, if not dialed in to the penny.

I personally run a Blue stylus on a Red body, on a Debut Carbon DC. In my personal opinion, the table itself does not merit more than the Blue. In stock form, the table is $399, the Bronze cart is $440. There's a train of thought, started by Linn in the 70's, that the quality of the table takes precedence over the quality of cart. A modest cart will sound better on a great table, but a great cart may not sound great on a mediocre table. I subscribe to the idea. Thus, Blue is as far as I go on my Debut, unless I come across a REALLY great deal for a Bronze stylus, when time comes to replace my Blue. If not - I will get another Blue, or may even go back to stock Red, as I now have a better cart on a better turntable (Zu Denon 103 on AR ES-1) that has become my primary deck.

 

Silver body is the same as Red, even internally, only with silver coils, as opposed for copper in Red. Bronze stylus on silver body just serves to prove yet again that all styli in the 2M line are interchangeable.

 

I have an Ortofon 2M Blue stylus just sitting in a box. I had a Poject Debut Carbon Esprit that came with an Ortofon Red cartridge. After about a year, I upgraded the stylus to a 2M Blue. This was 2015-2016. I got the turntable fever and I just bought a new VPI Prime Scout and upgraded to a 2M Black in May.

My Blue stylus is sitting in its original box (with my Black stylus guard on it because I lost the blue one)

I would let it go for $100.00 as it only has about 20 hours on it.
Steve

 

OP - problem solved.

 

Jump on this, Tyler. If you aren't interested, I will inquire myself.

 

I sometimes run a red stylus on a bronze cart and like it very much. It's a sound with more body - dare I say more musical - and one that certainly demands less examination, if that makes sense. Honestly speaking, I could live with either stylus happily. I can't attest to how much of this is down to the cart as I don't have a red cart to do a comparison on my current setup. There is youtuber (hifisquarepants, I think!) who has video's doing comparisons on the interchangeability of the 2m's...

 

Good to know!

When my Blue gave up the ghost last October, I acquired a silver stylus and cartridge to tide me over until I could replace it with the Blue again or move up to the Bronze. The silver is okay, but I can't get it to track as well as my old Blue. I am glad I got the silver cartridge though.

 

Just sent you a PM. I'm good to move forward on this.