When all else fails...scrubbing bubbles LP cleaning

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Put it in the classifieds as VG+++++

 

That's sort of confusing because I'm not sure if that's an entry level VG+++++ or just a VG+++++ or a solid VG+++++.

 

I don't understand those subtle distinctions and I think it will sell better if I go with NM. What constitutes "near" is very subjective,

;0)

 

I'm not curious about impacts to the diamond on a stylus - but that stylus tip needs to be attached/bonded to the cantilever, and the cantilever to the cartridge. am curious how bathroom cleaner chemicals interact with that bond and other non-diamond parts of the cartridge.

I didn't say I don't want to use this method ...I have a stack of garage sale TTs and plenty of trashed records. Everyone keeps talking about what's happening or not happening to the vinyl. My concern about this method is not for impacts on already junk vinyl but on the cartridge, and curious about any data and discussion there. Not all 'diamond needles' are equal. A well calibrated and good sounding cartridge/transducer is where the magic happens for me.

 

Steel wool.

Since you rinse it off, I couldn't see it reacting at all. It'll all be down the drain. Keep in mind a trace of anything particularly caustic will react with tapwater and be effectively neutralized even if every last molecule it isn't washed off - it'll just get turned into some kind of salt.

I'd imagine most records stored anywhere near the ocean have salt molecules all over them, already.

 

I'm struggling to understand this concept. Do I need to rub the BIC all over the LP or is waving the lighter over the fuel enough to accomplish the trick? Also would it work with other brands (I have a zippo )?

I feel that it should also be noted that using a lighter together with other chemical substances may cause you to believe that the LP on the turntable is clean and flawless or in some cases make you believe that you have a turntable.

 

I think you're supposed to douse the record in lighter fluid and then carry it with you to a concert the artist is playing, light it on fire and wave it over your head. The melted, flaming vinyl will then pour down your arms in flesh gouging fiery rivulets.

 

So it's supposed to improve the sound quality of my death throes and does nothing for the Hi-Fi at home? How disappointing and typical of web forums where everyone has its own agenda. I thought that here the community would be more helpful, obviously my mistake.

 

Well, finally had some time for my own take on this.

Now, I did not have the Scrubbing Bubbles brand - but Lysol's equivalent of a foaming/scrubbing bubble cleaner labeled as safe for vinyl.

The record in question was my copy of Carol King's Tapestry which exhibits lots of ticks and pops even after two passes of enzyme & rinse runs on my RCM.

Cut to the chase - no noticable difference. But also no harm no foul as far as being detrimental to its current state.

Inconclusive as I did not use the exact brand listed - maybe the formulation is different.

ymmv....

 

Recently read, can't remember where, that you shouldn't use dishwashing liquid on your car because it has abrasives in it and will scratch the finish. If true, dawn is probably not the best choice for record cleaning fluid

 

Dawn doesn't have abrasives in it. I don't think any standard dishwashing liquid does.

 

I won't mock anybody with a clever idea, and I'm all about finding 'non-audiophile approved' approaches to things where they work.
The stuff records are made of is pretty rugged. I don't know what abrasive action is involved in using Scrubbing Bubbles, but remember it as a household cleaner for sinks, toilets and the like. Leave aside chemical interactions for the moment. One concern I have about putting any fluid on a record to clean it is getting same off the record effectively. If it does its job-whether fancy branded stuff or material you can buy at a grocery or Lowes', it will not only consist of the residual fluid, but the contaminants that you wanted to remove from the record. That's why I always do some form of rinse, even if I am using a very mild record cleaner.
My various approaches have been described here before and I won't spend the time to repeat them- partly because everybody has their favorite products, applicators and methods. But, getting the contaminant/fluid slurry off the record is a large part of record cleaning. Apart from the risk of letting it dry and harden--the reason why some records after "cleaning" sound worse, I think you want to approach this with the mildest of fluids and work up in strength or possible side effects from there-
I like a fluid from Hannl-- not well distributed in the States (the company was just sold, and I understand it will be "back" in August with better distribution). I get it in concentrated form, and mix it at home. (I use reagent grade 1 water, but distilled or other "purified" waters can work). If the Hannl doesn't do the job on a particular record, I will go to a stronger cleaner. I can usually tell just by looking at a record what fluid to use, based on the surfaces, but often I've gotten old records that looked pristine and sounded nasty even after after cleaning (both fluid/vac/rinse and ultrasonic). Those require more work.
If the records have been contaminated by some kind of fluid, or mold, you may have to go beyond conventional fluids. I get that. Alcohol, for a brief interval, isn't in my experience a bad thing for a vinyl record (many commercial LP cleaning fluids used alcohol at one point and a few still do). I don't find it to be a terribly effective solvent but it can work. I suppose if the record is otherwise a lost cause, you can do what you will. But, as a "regular cleaner," I'd go with something mild, and only get aggressive if the situation calls for it.
One commercial fluid that I have used actually seems to make records quieter. But, it also dulls the sound. Getting it off with water isn't that easy either. I quit using it altogether. So, do no harm. If scrubbing bubbles works in your situation, I'm hardly in a position to tell anybody not to use it. But I do think for those newly into records, or record cleaning, a Hippocratic Oath should be the baseline. The more extreme approaches may be justified, but shouldn't be treated as routine for cleaning. I helped a guy here once who had used Magic Eraser on a record, because he read somewhere on the Web that was effective. It took me a while to remove the detritus of the ME, before I would even put the thing into one of my machines. (I keep my machines as clean as my records, and go to the length of cleaning all the glassware, brushes and applicators too, using various products from lab supply houses). Like I said, I'm not against using industrial or other approaches to our hobby--there are bargains to be found, for example, in iso transformers that are meant for industrial use that are far cheaper and often more effective than audiophile power conditioning (with less sonic downside) so long as you recognize that what we advocate can sometimes not be so good for others. (Remember the Armour-all debacle on CDs?)

 

Yeup, Mmmm-hmmmm......

 

I'm not really surprised. I've said this before in record cleaning threads but I have found most fluids pretty much do the same thing; clean your records to a point where no further cleaning can be done to fix the audible issues. In which case, it's probably toast. Even an ultrasonic cleaning experiment I went through didn't show any noticeable improvement on 6 records (I'll give it another go though).

Most people reporting their findings are just reporting their findings on the one method used. Rarely are there different fluids being compared.

One day I should really just start a thread about my experiences because I have tried so many different fluids; AIVS, L'art Du Son, Mofi, home brew with iso-p and now Triton X-100 (jury still out on that one but so far, nothing better than what I have seen before). Not to mention enzyme based cleaners like Vinylzyme Gold, the AIVS one, Mofi's version...but that's a subject for another thread

 

Are you using their RCM as well or just the fluid? Their RCMs look very nice...and expensive

Do you know if the fluid is alcohol based? Just curious.

 

I don't think the Hannl fluid has alcohol.* I use a Keith Monks machine, and really like how it flows in the Monks. The KL ultrasonic I use as an additional step. Here's the machines now set up in my new place in Austin:IMG_0465 by bill hart, on Flickr

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*There isn't a detailed description in English for what the concentrate contains. Another site from Europe said this: "There is also a low alcohol concentrate compared to traditional cleaners, which protects the plates. The very good cleaning results are achieved by incorporating alcohol substitutes into the mixture." So it sounds like there is a small amount of alcohol in it!

 

I've come to realize this is 90% of record cleaning. All of these threads wondering if some new type of cleaner nobody has tried before is going to remove more gunk then the other are missing the point, IMO. Something that sets apart formulations designed for cleaning records instead of bathtubs is ease of removal without residue.

 

You and I are in the same church, same pew, figuratively speaking.

 

It should be cut and dry what the NM grading implies. How To Grade Items : Support

Near Mint (NM or M-)
Vinyl
A nearly perfect record. A NM- record has more than likely never been played, and the vinyl will play perfectly, with no imperfections during playback. Many dealers won't give a grade higher than this implying (perhaps correctly) that no record is ever truly perfect. The record should show no obvious signs of wear. A 45 RPM or EP sleeve should have no more than the most minor defects, such as any sign of slight handling. An LP cover should have no creases, folds, seam splits, cut-out holes, or other noticeable similar defects. The same should be true of any other inserts, such as posters, lyric sleeves, etc.

The VG+++!1 ratings are lame.

 

I knew that but thanks for sharing. But seriously on anything not in the wrapper new it is buyer beware.

 

Here is how I suggest you can determine if a previously untested product is safe to be used on a record for cleaning purposes (works with vinyl 33/45's and shellac 78's):

• Select a record which is not very valuable to you (so there is no great loss if it is damaged). * It needs to be in good condition - clean and shiny vinyl.
• Take an undiluted drop of the cleaning product you want to test, and place this drop in the lead-out area of the record near the label. Don't put it over the grooves, just place it on the shiny vinyl. This way if it does do damage, the area the styli tracks will be unaffected from the test.
• Put it aside for a few days. If the drop starts to evaporate add another drop. The idea is for the spot on the record to have extended contact with the undiluted product.
• After a few days rinse the drop with clean water, pat dry with a micro-fibre cloth and leave to air dry. Do not rub the test spot.
• Observe the spot where you tested with the drop of product:
- If you see a slightly dull spot surrounded by the original shiny vinyl, the product has etched into the vinyl and damaged it. Don't let the product anywhere near any records again!
- If it is impossible to see a difference between the test spot and the adjacent vinyl, it is unlikely to have damaged the surface. Check under magnification to be sure. The product will probably be safe to use in diluted form with limited contact time on the record.


The beauty of this technique is it eliminates uninformed opinions.

 

Except if you aren't going to leave the material in contact with the vinyl for more than a few seconds, I'm not sure what's really being tested here. I could care less if something would damage the vinyl if left to sit on it for days. If I've got a filthy record, I want something that'll blast the gunk off of it and won't damage it for the minute or so the product is left on the record.