Omega 3xrs or Klipsch Heresy III

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ben Green, Aug 18, 2017.

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  1. Ben Green

    Ben Green Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Stockholm
    too many kids and diffuculties with placement forces me to abandon my Esl57. I thus need some suggestions for altrrnatives. I am very much into low powered tubes. Currently using a pair of renovated Quad II, but I am considering getting a Audion Silver Night 300b or possibly Decware, something. Could Omega 3xrs be something, or Klipsch Heresy iii. Are the latter more retro than good?
     
    PhxJohn likes this.
  2. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Honestly, many of those speakers I am not familiar with. Klipsch however.....Heresy's are light in the bass. -4db@58Hz according to the manufacturer. Cornwalls or Fortes would provide bass with efficiency. If you would consider used, additional Klipsch come to mind....Chorus, and Quartet. Depending on vintage, some have exponential horns, other have Tractrix. Klipsch's website has specs on all models current and past.
     
  3. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    I've heard Heresy's and Cornwalls side by side and there is just no comparison. Listened first to the Heresy's and they sounded pretty good. Then the Cornwalls just blew them away. Going back to the Heresy's they sounded so much smaller (which they are!). If you have the space, which is not too hard since they are designed to sit against the wall, get the Cornwalls or as PhxJohn said the Fortes (which I have not heard). I had Cornwalls for several years with a 2 watt SET45 amp and a vintage Fisher 400. They sound terrific.
     
    Dennis0675 and cadeallaw like this.
  4. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    The speakers you've mentioned have only high efficiency in common.

    The Omega single driver line (especially with their small Fostex drivers) are definitely an acquired taste that only a small number of audiophiles actually acquire. The Omega single driver models that use a physically larger driver are vastly better - wonderful, in fact- in my opinion. To me, the 3-series sound like fingernails on a chalkboard. If you're considering Omega, the 7-series is where you want to be, IMO. I think the Super 7 MK2 is terrific.

    The Heresy III is what it has always been - a brash, 3-way, that is a lot of fun to listen to. Despite its relatively large woofer, bass performance is not the best by any means. The midrange can be irritatingly beamy, depending on the room and placement.

    The Heresy III and all the Omega single driver speakers need a room in which you have full control over positioning.
     
    beowulf likes this.
  5. dadbar

    dadbar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland OR
    I have a set of Heresy 1 that I use with low power SET (2A3). These are greatly enhanced with a subwoofer (a REL Q201 in my case).

    Be warned, though, that the Heresy's take us as much floor space as a set of Klipsch Forte's. If I were starting from scratch, I would consider those. You would need to protect the passive radiator in the back, though, from prying kid fingers. I suppose that's one of the advantages of horns over standard dome tweeters.......
     
    McLover likes this.
  6. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I'd go Klipsch Forte, Heresy, or Cornwall. And if corners are available, they're better in corners. But can be used near walls.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  7. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Another option for you would be Audio Note AN-E speakers. They come as a standard efficiency or in a high efficiency model. The standard efficiency model is about 91-93 db.

    The high efficiency model, the AN-E HE is 97-98 db efficient and uses a hemp cone. They can be powered by as little as 2 or 3 watts and they are very musically enjoyable. These are designed to sit in the corner, like the Cornwalls. The best thing about them other than the sound is that they have 20 different finishes available and the woodwork is gorgeous.

    I've had mine for a couple of years and I love them - no plans to change for a very long time,
     
  8. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    I used single driver speakers for a while (Moth Cicadas) and while they do some things great and were fun, they had too many limitations to hold long term.
     
  9. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I have Heresy IIIs, they have about 300 hours on them, driven by my 45 watt/ch tube integrated.

    There's nothing "brash" about these speakers when driven by higher power tube amplification. I've been told that they don't perform as well with the low wattage SET amps, and that's why many find them to be "bright."

    In my set ups, the Heresys are just as easy on the ears as my Spendors. My Spendors are in my treated room, while the Heresys are in my untreated room that has a fair amount of reflective surfaces. My advice is to auditon the Heresys for yourself if you can (the IIIs, not some worn out CL pair from the 80s). I was apprehensive to try them because of claims of brightness, brashness, beaming, etc, but I'm glad I gave them a chance. It's my suspicion that some make claims about the III without having actually heard them, or they heard them paired with a cheap AVR.

    Yes, they can be light in the lower bass freqs, but that's the trade off for their tight and relatively fast upper bass. I don't feel the need for a sub with 90% of mixed genres.

    One of their best attributes is that they can sound great when placed very close to a wall, and their low stance makes for easy integration with my living space. If they were any taller, they'd be eye sores in my living room.
     
  10. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    If you really are in Stockholm, then I'd buy something more readily available locally, which should also be superior. Higher efficiency doesn't mean higher fidelity. I find the Heresy to be harsh and hard to listen to with most material for any length of time. I find most of the single driver designs to be very mid-centric, lacking in response that leaves me feeling robbed of the rest of the music when compared to a true full range speaker. I have had high efficiency speakers here, which were improved by adding a tweeter or supertweeter, but that still lacked in bass. Neither of those choices will have good bass. I'd look at smaller, more traditional hi-fi speakers with better overall sound. Unless you want crazy loud levels or choose a 5w or lower amp, you should be fine for volume and get better overall sound quality.
    -Bill
     
    Manimal likes this.
  11. Ben Green

    Ben Green Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Thanks for all input!!!

    I had the impression that the Omega loudspeakers could be placed close to a wall, and thus quite easy to position.
    The point Helom makes about the Heresy is very important, unfortunately, ie they are easy to integrate. One family member waged a war against my Esl57 from day one. A larger Klipsch, like the Cornewalls, would thus cause problems. Forte looks interesting indeed, will try too find a pair here in Stockholm and listen to them.
    One of the main benefits with high sensitive speakers as I see it, is that one can use a potentially wider range of amplifiers.
     
  12. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    The current 3 series in Omega's lineup use the RS5 driver and do not use Fostex drivers anymore. The RS5 is superior to the Fostex in every way IMO.

    Your recommendation of the RS7 is excellent though and probably the most well rounded in his lineup IMO. Whereas the AlNiCo HempCone is probably the most refined and the RS3 is definitely the fastest with perhaps the most top end. I have not heard the RS8 yet, but my most obvious thoughts would be that it will offer deepest bass.

    At this point all the drivers used in Omega's entire lineup are proprietary, designed by Louis and built to his specs in the USA (I wanna say they are built by Tone Tubby Guitar Amplfiers, but don't hold me to that). The are 4 total drivers currently in his lineup the (1) RS5, (2) RS7, (3) AlNiCo HempCone and (4) RS8 (the RS8 is the newest design and not shown on the driver comparison page in the link I posted, but there are 2 models available with the RS8 driver listed elsewhere on his website).

    All Omega's lineup are an easy load for amps and can be ran to good volumes with as little as 2 watts @ either an 8 ohm or in the case their high output models 4 ohms and range from about 92.5dB to 98dB efficient .

    Your impression is correct ... the new cabinets used in most all of Omega's tower models have their bass ports either angled downward or in some instances such as the Super AlNiCo XRS bottom ported. Thus making room placement fairly easy and while I would still recommend some breathing space, they can be used fairly close to the rear walls.

    The horns would of course be way more dynamic and capable of some really loud volumes and the single drivers will image better, be more coherent and offer more detail. Horns are often listed with higher efficiency, however take into consideration that there are no crossovers in a single driver design thus the "first watt" is really driving the speakers and does not get sucked up by a crossover like it would on a 2 or 3 way speaker design.

    p.s. there are people close to you who are Omega fans. This article is in Norwegian but Jørgen (the guy who wrote it) is a frequent poster on Audio Circle and has bought and had Louis send him a couple pairs of Omega's over the last few years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  13. Abbagold

    Abbagold Working class hero

    Location:
    Natchitoches, LA
    I've got a pair of Heresy I's that have been updated with Crites crossovers. I have them hooked up to a Sansui 2000x and use it for cd/pandora listening. Placement helps but you won't get the booty thumping bass some people like. If you add a sub then it would be a great little set up. For what I use them for, they do the job well enough.
     
  14. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    Truth
     
  15. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Well, you are going quite down the rabbit hole with tube amps and possibly horn speakers :D

    Both are highly interactive-tube amps have high output impedance which significantly affects the speaker response due to interaction with the speakers' impedance. Horns, meanwhile, all have their own idiosyncratic character. I love both, but be prepared to e$x$p$e$r$i$?m$e$n$t.

    Newer Klipsch models have smoother horns versus way-old ones, and I have read the Crites crossovers help as well. Horns can have rough, spiky impedances due to reflections from the throat/mouth/insides, and a non-smooth impedance is the enemy of passive crossovers. I also *think* there is not a lot or anything happening inside Klipsch o rZu etc in the way of cabinet stuffing, bracing, anti-vibration coating (owners please tell me if I am right or wrong). Therefore the sound ends up quite different from something like a B&W with dynamic drivers and internal honeycomb structure.

    By the way, don't believe anyone's sensitivity specifications. Let me say as a loudspeaker design engineer that unfortunately due to nonstandardization and flat out b*llsh!t (like measuring in pairs, and adding in "room gain" factors), you can't count on those measurements at all. Or frankly any other measurements like power handling or frequency response. It is all pretty much meaningless.

    A 4.5" driver? Sorry, forget it. REAL bass (as opposed to a shadow illusion of it) requires moving air; that is just not big enough. MAYBE if coupled to a true rear horn which I don't think that is. Keep hunting.

    Picture of the room? More details about just how your Quads are being "attacked"? You are looking for something without a grille and without tweeters to poke? (Some speakers have stiff metal grilles over them).
     
  16. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Agree, all specs should be taken with a grain of salt from any manufacturer. Agree as well that I would not look to any 3 series models if bass is a priority ~ though it will be tuneful, it will not hit you in the chest like his Outlaw designs, the Outlaw Super 7 for instance is a 2 chamber cabinet that uses a single driver in the top chamber of the cabinet to cover the main frequencies and a 12" woofer in the bottom chamber.

    All Omega's cabinets are way more stout than anything in Klipsch's classic line and although they are not shown with grills in some of the pics on his website ~ they are included with all of his speakers. They use magnets under the veneer so grill holes are not visible and the cabinets look so much better without them when/if you do decide to take the grills off.
     
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