How To Achieve The "Valve" Sound?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Matt Smallwood, Aug 18, 2017.

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  1. Matt Smallwood

    Matt Smallwood Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Okehampton
    Hi there
    So I really want to get into tube equipment, because (from the little I've heard in person) the sound is completely unique, and one of the reasons I started with Vinyl was for the "warm" and friendly tone, which the valve perfectly compliments.
    My current system is a Dual 505-3 turntable through a (Solid State) Project Phono Box preamp, into my power amp.
    Is there anyway I can affordably achieve the "valve sound"? My budget is embarrassingly low...
    First off, what valve stage do I want to be looking for? For example, do I want a valve phono preamp (to replace the phono box) or a preamp in-between the phono box and power amp?
    And of course... Cost... As I'm just starting what is the cheapest thing I can find which will sound OK? I am perfectly happy buying second hand, and/or replacing parts or repairing etc.
    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. sturgus

    sturgus Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis Mo
    What is your power amp, and your speakers?
     
  3. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Is this the second time you've started this exact same thread?

    Not that it's a problem, just wondering if something happened or changed the question.

    I was trying to do the exact same thing not all that long ago for the same reason and hears what I did. First I got a tube pre amp, that wasn't cheap. Then I got a tube phonostage, also not cheap.

    Finally I bout an all tube intagrated from about 1964. Compared to the first two steps, it was cheap and the best thing I did. Not right away, not util I got some Effexor to speakers that could fill up a room and get loud with 25 watts of power.

    All that to say, get on eBay or something and find an old tube amp in good working order. I'm not sure what's available where you are but I would think heathkit would be common.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  4. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    First of all, what sturgus said.

    Solid state amplifiers generally have a very low output impedance, and don't care very much about the speakers' impedance. Tube amplifiers have a significantly higher output impedance and DO interact significantly with the speakers. So you have started down Alice's hole my friend :eek:
    Personally I do have a soft spot for tubes myself, though I haven't used them in years. Oh, another way to "warmen" or "tubify" your sound could be via a tube preamp, of which I believe there are even some tube headphone-amp/preamp combos out there.

    Affordable tube amps will probably be used, though then you really have to watch your budget because (like a used car) something that seems cheap could need a lot of work and become expensive.

    Here's a preamp board for $39
    "Yuan-Jing 6N2 Tube Pre-amplifier Board" from www.parts-express.com!

    A forum about building tube stuff
    Tubes / Valves - diyAudio

    Or how about a $140 tube amp with Bluetooth!
    Tube Amp with Bluetooth 25-watt Stereo Hybrid - Monoprice.com
    25 watts per channel, and that can be the Achilles Heel of tube amps-they tend to be much less powerful per dollar than transistor amps. Some people say they "sound more powerful" which though I agree psychologically is of course not really true in a strict sense-they may just not clip as ugly as typical transistor amps but they clip nevertheless.
     
  5. LARGERTHAN

    LARGERTHAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eire
    Chi-Fi, though much maligned - sometimes fairly, sometimes not - can be an affordable introduction to valves/tubes. The usual caveats apply concerning returns etc - buy Amazon or local if at all possible. Yaqin gets favourable write ups from many. Or Little Dot headphone amps can be an even cheaper introduction if you're that way inclined. In all instances, most everybody recommends upgrading stock valves.
     
  6. Keveen

    Keveen New Member

    Yes! I bought a Yaqin tube CD player recently, a bit of a chance as I was beguiled by it's unique styling. Ordered late Fri night, from Hong Kong,it was at my door in Melbourne Australia on Wednesday . Knocked out by it's build and sound. Outperforms my $2500 British player. I will certainly get a tube amp in the future, But right now I hoping to get a Yamaha SA3000.
     
  7. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    I haven't been keeping up, but that sure looks like something I've just been reading about in other threads here, a $2 car stereo amp IC based power amp with a pretty but useless tube buffer line stage added to make it a "tube amp".
     
  8. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    On the "tube buffer" I have, a Yaqin SD-CD3 and sound signal doesn't pass through the tubes I think, they are definetely used and the devive improves the sound of the source connected to it. One test I did was put my headphones on and connected them to my A/V receiver, switch the tube buffer on and tap one of the two 6SN7 tubes it uses with the eraser of a pencil, and I couldn't hear nothing, even the tapping on the tube. I did this to my Yaqin Phono preamp an MS-23B and I could hear on the headphones the tapping of the tubes loud and clear. I got as a conclusion that sound signal doesn't go through the 6SN7 tubes on the Yaqin tube buffer.
     
  9. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    What is your budget? What amp and speakers are you currently using?
     
  10. Balthazar

    Balthazar Forum Resident

    I've never heard this Yaqin but an audiophile named John Ellison on Audio Asylum has this to say:

    He's also running a Pass XOno , so he has a pretty good frame of reference for quality phono stages . Anyway, it's $182 via Amazon and it'd be a safe bet for the OP to get some low cost valve sound.

    Amazon.com: YAQIN MS23B upgraded version of MS22B 12AX7B X2 Stereo Tube Phono Stage: Home Audio & Theater

    I'm a bit confused as the OP's set up, though. Does he have a preamp or an integrated amp? In this scenario, what is acting as a volume control?

     
    EddieVanHalen likes this.
  11. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    If you have 182 $ to burn on something plus the money for two new tubes as the ones that come from the factory are crap, you'll get a Phono preamp that trounces most built in Pho pres on amplifiers. I've had the Yaqin MS-23B for 8 months and I'm very happy with it, I currently have on it two NOS Hitachi 12AX7 tubes from the 1960's and its sound is outstanding. But you don't need to go to Ebay looking for Hitachi tubes as they show up from time to time, a pair of current production Gold Lion 12AX7 tubes with golden pins will make it shine.
    If you have a turntable, you really enjoy playing your LP albums and want to get into the tube sound this a great and inexpensive way to do it.
     
    Cerealplayer likes this.
  12. Noisefreq1

    Noisefreq1 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Independence
    The Bellari VP 130 gets a lot of knocks but I'm VERY happy with mine. Yeah, it's kind of skimpy in it's design but it sounds really good. Works great with my Audio Technica cartridge and interfaces with my SS reciever perfectly.

    You need a MM cart with decent output, which my AT is 4.5mV.
    It works with lower voltages just has less headroom. I've used it with a Shure V15 with 3.5mV and it was ok, just not a perfect match.

    There is no loading capability or capacitance dip switches. Just an input and output knob and a headphone volume.

    It uses one tube, not two but despite this it sounds really expansive and three dimensional. It lifted off a blanket from my speakers and brought the music out about two feet. It gives the music a low-mid warmth that just sounds so good. My cart has a detailed top end quality that matches with the Bellari's sound perfectly.

    I've compared it to lesser solid state pre's like NAD PP2 and ART DJ Pre II.
    The Bellari blows them away.
    I have heard it next to a hopped up Jolida JD9 II and it held it's own. Keep in mind one costs $125 and the other was $550 used.

    I bought my Bellari used in 2013 and it came with an upgraded power supply.
    I changed out the Sovtek tube in it with a new Mullard. Made a huge difference. Not so strained and brittle sounding.

    The reason I even posted this is because the Bellari is a sort of poor man's tube pre and if cost is a concern to you it's worth investigating.
     
  13. Daily Nightly

    Daily Nightly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Get a 1960s DYNACO PAS-3X (the most budget -yet positively tweekable- TUBE preamp of ALL-TIME) and pair it with a 1970s MARANTZ 1060 integrated (solid state...BUT: the most over-achieving sleeper integrated of all-time --- better than the plastic **** NAD 3020), then: unplug the Marantz's jumper pins (to separate its' internal preamp) and use it as the power while the Dynaco acts as an outboard pre.
     
    noahjld likes this.
  14. mgmgrand

    mgmgrand Forum Resident

    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Having lived with a variety of topologies, I think that the association of tubes with "warmth" is largely based on perception owing to looking at glowing tubes while listening. The best tube/valve gear I've heard excels at capturing the attack and decay of voices and instruments and creating a relaxed, organic, seamless presentation. The differences aren't as big as they used to be, though, and I wouldn't spend money on cheap gear just because it has tubes involved. Lesser tube gear, I've found, tends to sound thin and bright and distorted at the frequency extremes. If you want a warm tonal balance, meaning (as best I can tell) an emphasis in the lower midrange and a sense of body, start with the speakers. Getting a cheap valve phone stage with crappy Chinese tubes will just have you playing with (and spending money on) valves instead of listening to music.
     
    murphythecat likes this.
  15. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    yeah, cheap chinese buffer are not the way to tube sound. at least get a good tube pre amp if you really like your SS power amp.


    the only "buffer" id consider is the ifi micro itube 2.
     
  16. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    There are also some warmer sounding solid-state amplifiers. On the vintage side - the B&K ST-140 is very "friendly". The early Mac gear, like the 2505, 250, 2100 are also very tubey. I'm sure there are some others but those models come first to my mind since I've owned and enjoyed them.

    The Mac gear is getting more expensive these days while the B&K gear is pretty cheap.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  17. William Bryant

    William Bryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nampa, Idaho
    Does the iTube2 thump or pop when you switch it on, or is there some kind of delay or protection till things warm up and stabilize?
     
  18. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    the iTube1 didnt pop when switched on. dont know about the new model
     
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