Helter Skelter Bass

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ern, Aug 22, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Don't think John could've handled it. John was a very good guitar player, but as a bass player he was awful! I just have to listen to his bass playing on the Let It Be sessions or on the Anthology take of Rocky Raccoon, as examples.

    That's one of the Beatle myths that we heard so many times, that it's presented as a fact. I think John didn't play bass on the released version of Helter Skelter, he played it on the 18 July 1968 session,

    I think it’s Paul on the Fender Jazz bass.

    On the September Beatles Monthly book nº 62, we had this info from Mal Evans: "I can't go into great detail about most of the other July and August sessions just yet because they were all in connection with the next LP...One of the numbers Paul wrote turned into a 24-minute recording, a right old jam session, with John playing bass guitar just for a change..."

    Ok, if you listen to the take on Anthology from 18 July 1968, the bass is the most basic I’ve heard, just root notes, it fits with Mal’s info.

    Then on the October one nº 63, he says: “Another track which started out lasting 24 minutes before the fellows shortened it has John on bass, Paul using his Ephiphone guitar and George on his new Gibson

    On The Beatles Anthology book Ringo had this to say about the song: “Helter Skelter was a track we did in total madness and hysterics in the studio. Sometimes you just had to shake out the jams, and with that song – Paul’s bass line and my drums – Paul started screaming and shouting and made it up on the spot.”

    Now listen to this studio chat from 9 September 1968, right from 6.38, before a take you can hear a distorted guitar, drums and a bass, that from his sound resembles the one on the released version. Now at 6.49 you have Paul saying something like have extra on the first…then he picks some bass notes, then at 7.29 he’s going Helter skelter, Helter Skelter…then bang, bass note!



    The photos I’ve seen from the White Album sessions, from August onward, Paul seemed to favour the Fender Jazz bass, and the sound reminds me of that bass.

    What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  2. The Elephant Man

    The Elephant Man Forum Resident

    Don't forget...John wailed on the saxophone.
     
    Keith V and ODIrony like this.
  3. daveidmarx

    daveidmarx Forem Residunt

    Location:
    Astoria, NY USA
    Yeah, the evidence in the outtakes medley clearly illustrate it's Paul beyond a shadow of a doubt. Case closed! Good work!! :righton:
     
    Ern likes this.
  4. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    And Mal on Trumpet.
     
  5. Gila

    Gila Forum Resident

    Yes it does. Similar sound (but less treble) on Yer Blues.

    That's a "power chord" with open low E string (open E, 7th fret A, 9th fret D and maybe 9th fret on G strings). In fact this actually happens in song twice (once in the first "ending" before first fade out, and then at the very end but kind of not exactly in time with the drums though before "blisters on my fingers").

    Well now I do too, thanks for the info and especially for that outtake/studio chat video link!
     
    Ern likes this.
  6. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    This makes the song more awesome tbh.
     
  7. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    The bass playing is clumsy in places, sounds like John to me.
    Plus Mal Evans is specific about it being the released version, no?
    You can get the exact bass sound using Fender VI, neck/middle pickup combination.

    Ondra
     
    Jon H., nasa09, seacliffe301 and 3 others like this.
  8. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
  9. Ram4

    Ram4 Lookin' good

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Always figured it was Paul on guitar, John on Fender VI.
     
  10. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    The bass was recorded live, it was not overdubbed, so even Paul could make mistakes. And judging by the nature of the song, I don't think Paul wanted a well crafted bass line.
    Yes Mal said that, but he could be confusing with the 18 July recording.
    Did you listen to the studio chat?
    The bass line sounds like a Jazz bass. It reminds me of John Paul Jones bass line on Whole Lotta Love, which I think is a fender Jazz:
     
    tteal and dkmonroe like this.
  11. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Huh. The outtakes sure make it seem like Paul. Good find!
     
    tteal, daveidmarx, Gila and 1 other person like this.
  12. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    I've always thought it was Paul on bass, and John on guitar (that piercing, simplistic first guitar solo screams *JOHN* to me)
     
    Strat-Mangler and Ern like this.
  13. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Maybe with the release of the Deluxe White Album next year, we'll know for sure! ;)
     
    supermd likes this.
  14. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Quick, someone ask Giles on Twitter! We need a historical actor to weigh in on this. ;)
     
    coniferouspine and MLutthans like this.
  15. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    Listening to the bass isolated it's even worse than I thought. Pretty sloppy throughout the entire song...

    The problem with the outtake is that it's from the rockband chat which has been manipulated in many cases. There is even one line by George from Paperback Writer session.

    Ondra
     
    nikh33 and Echoes71 like this.
  16. Echoes71

    Echoes71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    Wow...I kinda wish I never heard that. I love listening to isolated tracks, but that was pretty rough. Sometimes it's best to preserve the mystique and leave the mixes alone!
     
    majorlance and BDC like this.
  17. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Yes, that George line is from Paperback Writer, but the other dialogue is clearly not manipulated, since Paul is singing bits of Helter Skelter with the bass sound. Also the drums and the guitar heard are clearly from the song.
     
    daveidmarx and supermd like this.
  18. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Giles?! I'm sure he'll do a search on the web and say it's John on bass!
     
    Drifter, Fullbug, Gila and 1 other person like this.
  19. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I've heard the isolated bass track for "Helter Skelter" and I really don't believe that Paul would have played it that sloppily.
     
    Jerquee, nasa09, nikh33 and 5 others like this.
  20. The Elephant Man

    The Elephant Man Forum Resident

    Oh my GOD! It's only three notes! This is the most horrible bass line EVER!
    If the bass line is this bad, I bet the rest of the song is even worse!!!!
    Why couldn't they have gotten Jaco to play on this? Or the Primus guy?
    hahahaha.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
    Fullbug likes this.
  21. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    How do you know? Could have been cut to be more condensed.

    I just don't believe Paul would play this bad on bass.

    Ondra
     
    nasa09, nikh33 and dkmonroe like this.
  22. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Even playing that very simple and elementary bass part, I am jealous of JPJ. :laugh:
     
  23. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    On the snippet you have Paul singing When I get to the bottom... and you hear bass notes like the ones on the released version...what do you want more? How can they manipulate that?!
     
    daveidmarx likes this.
  24. Ern

    Ern Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    :)
    I just posted it, because JPJ used a Fender Jazz bass on it, I think, and the sound is similar to the bass on Helter Skelter.
     
    The Elephant Man and dkmonroe like this.
  25. The Elephant Man

    The Elephant Man Forum Resident

    It's perfect! And it punches you in the face! The way the best bass playing should always be!
     
    Jon H., boggs, Fullbug and 1 other person like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine