Does anyone use a dedicated Headphone Amp to listen to vinyl through their main amp/receiver?

Fellow audiophiles,

I'd like to upgrade my Sennheiser 558's to 600's. As my McIntosh MA5100 has a headphone amp that's set 220 ohm, 5 W, I'd assume that the 300 ohm 600's would not be the optimal fit.

Hence, I've been leaning toward something in the realm of a Schiit Valhalla 2 for a little tube variety. I've been looking for constructive criticism on this forum and others to find people's opinions on using this Schiit amp, or something like it, primarily for vinyl listening though a main amp. It seems as if almost everyone uses the low-budget Schiit amps (and others) for digital/computer usage. Should I even bother with analog listening through a Schiit? I want to be able to use the phono pre in my McIntosh, as it is fantastic.

Can it be done with successful results for vinyl listening the way I'd like to do it? I figure I should run it through a tape-out connection. If any of you listen this way—or used to do so—I'd appreciate any comments, criticisms, observations, etc., you may have on the topic. Thanks ahead of time!

Much obliged,

Bill

 

If you have a tape out you should have the perfect setup to accomplish what you want to do (use your preamp for both power and headphone amps).

 

Thanks, Ian. Sorry I've been so schvitzy about this, but I just want to get it right the first time.

Best,

Bill

 

Be prepared that you may not get it right the first time. You can't really know what headphones and amp are right for you until you listen to them with your sources. And listen to them long enough to get a good feeling about how they sound to you. Reading reviews won't help you there. Short demos at a dealer can help, but won't be enough of a listen to know if they are right for you long term. The only way to know if the headphones and amp will be right for you long term is to try them long term.

The Schiit amps are good with vinyl. So are other headphone amps. There are headphone listeners doing vinyl as their primary source. One concern for vinyl as source is that you want an amp that has enough gain to get the headphones loud enough. Vinyl typically has lower signal levels than digital. Which means you'll need to turn the volume knob on the amp up higher with vinyl than with digital. Though that depends on your phono pre-amp and how much gain it has. All of the Schiit amps will have plenty of gain. Some have more gain than I consider useful.

 

I have two setups running that way:

a) Yamaha R-S201 receiver tape (rec) out into Little Dot MkII tube HP amp, running primarily HD 600's, with great results. Little Dot has no issues driving 300 Ohm cans;

b) Cambridge Audio Azur 851A integrated, tape out into Pangea HP-201 tube hybrid, running HD598SE's. The Pangea runs the 598's nicely, but loses steam with the 600's - not enough power for 300 Ohm cans. However, the Pangea still does a better job driving the 598's than the Azur's HP tap - that one is really pathetically mediocre.

The Valhalla 2 specs claim to be able to run a wide array of cans/impedance, including even planar HiFiman, but one thing is for sure - it will be a killer with your 300 Ohm HD 600's. Not sure what it will produce with 600 Ohm cans, that I'd want to hear first, before buying.

If you think 600 Ohm cans are in your future - the DarkVoice 836SE amp is purportedly a good alternative, and can be regularly had on Massdrop for $199.

 

My dedicated amp is my iPhone/iPod.... (w/vinyl rips)

 

I just won on eBay a used Little Dot 1+ with Western Electric 408 tubes. From what I've read, this will be a great match with my (modded) Grado SR80i's.
This will be my first dedicated headphone amp, not including an underwhelming CMOY installed in a mints tin.

I plan to use this with a Rega Brio-R with a resto-modded AR turntable.

 

I use the Woo Audio Wa6 headphone amp with my Grado Rs2e headphones for vinyl. It's a really engaging combo.

 

Equipment of that vintage had/has no "headphone amp". The pair of 220 ohm resistors run off of the speaker selector tap and just serve as a fixed output voltage reference point --- as to have prevented volume overload when most headphones were low impedance. You could even get away with modifying it: by dropping the resistors to 150 ohm and using 3-watt, metal oxide type (which, would be more suited to sound quality anyway; than the chalky ceramic rectangulars in there since 1967).

 

I used a WA6 with my previous Sennheiser 800 'phones--sounded wonderful and easily drove them. I no longer need a dedicated headphone amp since my PrimaLuna has a killer one! (At the time I had a Pass Labs INT 150, which did not have a headphone output.)

 

FWIW, I spent some time powering my HD600s with the headphone out on a McIntosh MC2105. It could power them, but it was nothing special. Kind of dark and not a lot of life in the upper range. I also tried the headphone jack on a current-production McIntosh integrated amp (that I have since sold) and although it wasn't as dark-sounding as the vintage McIntosh, it was even more lifeless. The HD600s definitely need to be carefully matched to their amp to get anything approaching what they are capable of.

 

Wow! You've seriously schooled me.
Good to know these things. Thanks!

Bill

 

I think you'll love that, Grados match very well with the I+ (I have both Grados and the I+).

 

Awesome! It should be here on Wednesday.

 

I ordered the 600's today! After a finagling a few discounts, I'm getting them new from Amazon for $176 after tax. That should give me extra cash for that Schiit, if needed.

I'm going to test run it through my McIntosh, and break it in the fun way. They'll be here on Wednesday. Can't wait!

Thanks everyone for your superb advice and tales!

Bill

 

I was running my dedicated headphone amp through the tape outs. I found a difference when I started hooking the sources directly to the headphone amp. Found it opened it up a bit. Having said that, I was never a fan of the preamp I was using the tape outs on. I have subsequently replaced the preamp and have gone to a integrated and have gone back to using tape out and it is working quite well. Maybe I'm the only one that has found there can be some colour introduced through the preamp.
In my secondary system, I'm using a Little Dot +1 with Grado 325i's. Sweet.

 

$176 is a great deal for the 600's. Whether your Mac has enough power to break them in is another question that remains to be answered. You're better off breaking them in with the Valhalla already...

 

Benzion,

This has been quite an enjoyable, educational experience in the headphones world thus far. So I'll ask this possibly naïve questions: Would breaking them in through my Mac do any permanent damage to the 600's or spoil the break-in period at all? Or will it simply not break them in at all. Thanks for all of your assistance.

L'Shana Tova!

Bill

 

The McIntosh amp will do fine and have enough power to get the HD600 loud enough and will certainly break them in. It does not take a lot of power to get the HD600 loud. It only takes a few milliwatts to get them loud. Even an iPhone can get them loud.

Bill lists classical as one of the genres he listens to. An amp that has a somewhat lazy sound can do well for classical as long as that lazy sound has depth and detail. I prefer a smoother sound and a soundstage with depth for classical rather than a smack me upside the head impact with a flatter soundstage. If you only listen to rock then you'll probably prefer a more dynamic sound with more impact. But if you also listen to classical then an amp and headphone combo that allows you to hear the depth and size of an orchestra is kinda nice and can take precedence over getting smacked upside the head with percussion hits.

 

Just to clarify, the MA5100 has 220 ohm resistors in series with the headphone jacks to drop the power. The resistors are 5W size, meaning they can dissipate 5W without burning up, nothing to do with how much power is available to the phones, that would be determined by the impedance of the phones. The resistors are sized to protect low impedance phones.

The problem isn't so much power output, it's output impedance, which is very high with the 220 ohm resistors on the headphone jacks. Dynamic headphones, like speakers, have an impedance curve (the Senn 600 is shown below) and so the high amp output impedance will change the frequency response you hear based on the headphone impedance. It will also affect headphone driver control due to the loss in damping factor.

 

Ham,

Thanks for all the help! My Mac has a mellow, yet quick and deep, detailed soundstage. Hopefully, that will suffice for all of my music. You have Schiit experience. Are you intimating that the Valhalla 2 is a bit lazy? Although I do like classical music, rock, reggae, and jazz are certainly my go-to genres. I hope the soundstages I'm heading for will treat me right!

Best,

Bill

 

Davey,

These are incredible numbers that you are throwing out here. I'm still a bit of a newbie at these wavelength graphs. This may seem simple to you, but do the numbers favor a good or bad Mac 5100-Senn 600 combination? Or should I just avoid frustration and hop on the train to Schiitsville? I just want to make sure as a Valhalla 2 is a substantial purchase.

Thanks for some amazing pull-ups,

Bill

 

Well, it's just a general issue with headphone outputs on power amps that are made for speakers, they usually just stick a pretty big resistor in series for protection, but it's not good for sound quality. If it sounds good to you, then don't worry about it. When you have the opportunity later, compare the sound to some dedicated headphone amps and go from there. Audio is fun, don't worry too much about it along the way

 

The Valhalla 2 isn't lazy. The vintage Mac sound though may be on the lazy side (I haven't heard your specific Mac amp, so don't know).

You may find that you end up using the Mac headphone jack for classical and jazz, and a dedicated headphone amp for the rock and reggae. You won't know till you get a chance to hear the Mac with the HD600 compared to some dedicated headphone amps with the HD600.

You'll also need to listen to the Mac and HD600 combo with reggae to find out if it's going to have enough bass for you. It is possible to get a somewhat strong rumbling bass out of the HD600, but it takes a ballsy amp to do it. That may eliminate the affordable tube amps if you find you need a more ballsy sound for the reggae and rock. I can get the HD600 to vibrate my jowls with Infected Mushroom and similar music, but it takes a ballsy amp and listening at near 90dB to do it (90dB is not safe for listening for more than just short periods, if you can feel the HD600 in your jowls it is too loud). The bass and sound with the HD600 should be more like a two way monitor speaker. It's not going to rumble you like a big 3 way speaker and a sub.

 

Thanks guys!

You have been both gentlemen and scholars. Much appreciated!

Cheers to you,

Bill