How do you rate Pretenders II?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bataclan2002, Oct 21, 2017.

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  1. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    So true. It's as if she worked really hard to put together a Pretenders-quality and Pretenders-sounding album, which couldn't have been completely easy with new personnel. Although Robbie McIntosh really fit the bill.

    When I saw the Pretenders in Anaheim on the Break Up The Concrete tour, they didn't sound anything like the Pretenders to me. Her guitar player, forget it, he could have been anyone. Chrissie herself was in fine form. That's how I remember the show, she was great, the band was not so good.

    I think some people here are being a little hard on Pretenders II though. Like "The Adultress" isn't an awesome song? I think it is. Message of Love, Birds of Paradise, Talk of the Town, Pack It Up, Day after Day, how many great songs do you need on one album? :D The English Rose is pretty good. Listen to what Honeyman-Scott does on the last two songs I mentioned, he's a fantastic player. I Go To Sleep is also really good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  2. Mr. D

    Mr. D Forum Resident

    Perfect point about the EP (Extended Play) taking some of the steam out of the sails but any album that has Message of Love and Talk of the Town cannot be dismissed. Surprising that Cuban Slide, also from the EP, did not make it considering some of the side two filler. Nonetheless, I think it is a solid album considering the aforementioned songs and some other great and solid tunes (Birds of paradise, I Go To Sleep, Day After Day, Louie, Louie).
     
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  3. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
    Weaker than the first but has grown on me. The Adultress crushes!
     
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  4. bataclan2002

    bataclan2002 All You Need Is Now. Thread Starter

    This is the kind of opinion I was wondering about: If people feel that since II is the original band it has an edge over others particularly Learning to Crawl.
     
  5. bataclan2002

    bataclan2002 All You Need Is Now. Thread Starter

    Interesting points of view and very enlightening.
    I feel the LTC is a much stronger album than II. And I used to assume that was the standard critical assessment. But reading some reviews recently made me wonder if people’s opinion of II has changed over time. Especially given that this is only one of two albums with the lineup, perhaps we view it more charitably?
    So for the record, even with all it’s weaknesses, I do like II quite a bit. (When I love a band, I love everything!)
    LTC has the edge for me though, the 1-2 punch of Middle of the Road-Chain Gang is hard to top.
     
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  6. markp

    markp I am always thinking about Jazz.

    Location:
    Washington State
    First three, plus Last of the Independents are my favorites.
     
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  7. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    Has some great tracks but can't touch the debut.

    I have the original CD, the remaster, and the MoFi.

    I don't really like the MoFi as it seems to drain what energy the original CD had. Less dynamic range too. But some seem to like it.
     
  8. 905

    905 Senior Member

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    I'm not just being a forum contrarian, but it's my favorite Pretenders release period.
     
  9. bug2362

    bug2362 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Seattle, WA
    My 2nd favorite Pretenders album
    "Birds of Paradise" is a gorgeous pop song- one of Chrissie's finer moments
     
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  10. poidog

    poidog Senior Member

    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    If I'm not mistaken, I believe that money goes to PETA.
     
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  11. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Very disappointing follow up to a strong debut, but the singles (which I believe were put out before the album was released) were outstanding.
     
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  12. The Absent-Minded Flaneur

    The Absent-Minded Flaneur Forum Resident

    Location:
    The EU
    The main attraction of Pretenders II is Honeyman-Scott's playing. He was given more room to experiment and overdub than on the debut, and though the overdubbing does at times stifle some of the life out of the songs, it reveals what a fantastically inventive player he was. The way he mixes up elements of punk, blues, reggae, even heavy metal is constantly unpredictable and distinctive. It elevates ordinary songs like English Roses and Jealous Dogs and makes a masterpiece out of a song like Message of Love. And even his nastiest licks have a wonderfully pretty tone that seems even more haunting in light of his early death.

    Learning to Crawl is a nice album. The playing is good solid work but predictable and rather tame compared with Honeyman-Scott at his best.
     
  13. Frightwig

    Frightwig Forum Resident

    It’s a lot closer to their live sound at the time and Birds of Paradise is one of my favourites of all their songs. I see this as a natural progression from the first and, perhaps not as strong, definitely more lively. I don’t think they regained their essential vibe until Last of the Independents really.
     
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  14. Christopher B

    Christopher B Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Castle, DE
    It has an edge over the others for me. Learning to Crawl was good, no question, but it's not the original lineup. I checked out of The Pretenders shortly after Learning to Crawl.
     
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  15. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Most of us did. "Learning to Crawl" was much more polished than the first two, but the rawer sound on the first two was more attractive to me. At the time I was relieved that she could come back after the dismissal of Farndon and the sad death of Honeyman-Scott. But that was pretty much the last record of theirs for me.
     
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  16. uffeolby

    uffeolby Senior Member

    Location:
    Västerås, Sweden
    An overall pretty weak album with a couple of really strong songs thrown in. It is in my book not even close to neither the debut nor to Learning To Crawl, which is my favorite by Pretenders.

    Funny, this second album by Pretenders reminds me of the second album by Talking Heads, More Songs about Buildings and Food. Both follow ups to brilliant debuts, both pretty high regarded by fans, and both IMHO very inferior to the albums that came both before and after.
     
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  17. BurtThomasWard

    BurtThomasWard Guided by Loke In Memoriam

    Location:
    Norge
    Their/her best ever.
     
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  18. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I love Talk of the Town and Message of Love more than anything on the first lp, and that's saying a lot.
    But there's so much crap on the second lp. I suppose it's still my favorite version, since it has two huge favorites, plus Bad Boys Get Spanked, jealous Dogs, and The Adulteress.
    I'm a sucker for some of Chrissie's phrasings: "look at the Fool", "Don't be a sucker all your life", and "mind Your Leg"
    And yes, it shows the depth of JHS's playing getting better. Anything he left behind is gold, as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  19. Terry

    Terry Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Bad Boys Get Spanked is my fav.
     
  20. Davido

    Davido ...assign someone to butter your muffin?

    Location:
    Austin
    Pretenders 2 has aged very well - debut may have been an instant classic but I return to its follow up much more often 3.5 decades later. Side 2 may falter somewhat but the best of the album is pure cream.
     
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  21. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    This album is to their debut as Television's Adventure is to Marquee Moon, a very good album that suffers in comparison to an impeccable debut. In both cases, once I got a little burnt out on the first album, I was able to move on and appreciate the sequel on its own terms.
     
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  22. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Let's see, "Message Of Love", "I Go To Sleep", "Birds Of Paradise", "Talk Of The Town", "Pack It Up", "Day After Day", "English Roses", "Louie Louie".... all make this an excellent album. Is it up there with the debut? Of course not, but this is no sophomore slump and I definitely prefer it to Learning To Crawl.
     
  23. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    Absolutely!
     
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  24. johnnyyen

    johnnyyen Senior Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    It’s a step down from their debut, which is one of the best debuts ever. There are a couple of duds; Pack It Up is dreadful. At the time I thought it was a case of failing to follow up a brilliant debut, but there must have been real problems in that band considering what was to follow.
     
  25. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    There was so much to unpack and take in from the debut, that it just took me a while to be ready for what was on the second record.

    Most of the songs are pretty solid - and hey, what problem do people have with "Pack It Up"? And as others have said, it's the last recorded statement from James Honeyman-Scott - for that alone, it's worth a listen.
     
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