Did Brian Jones play guitar on Jumping Jack Flash (studio version)?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Andrew J, Jul 28, 2017.

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  1. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

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    Philidelphia, PA
    Okay see...that isn't cool. Comparing a guy who played with the band for...a year or two? And never played on any official recording... And one who was a core member 7 years and played on what, five or six albums?....that's not cool. That is diminishing one guy just to be nasty.
     
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  2. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    Listened to that on the way to work today, and quite agree.
     
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  3. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    It only goes there when someone shows up in a Syd Barrett thread or a Brian Jones thread and tries to tread him and anyone who appreciates him underfoot. One guy posted in a Syd Barrett thread that Mark David Chapman should have shot Syd instead of John Lennon. It isn't always the people who appreciate these musicians who ruin threads, it's often the people who want to show just how Superior they are by dismissing something they don't appreciate or don't understand.
     
  4. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I’m sure that’s exactly the kind of contract Allen Klein offered to his artists, giving them final approval over whether a recording could be released. Not.
     
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  5. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    I look at it like this. In general, they made better singles with Brian Jones and better albums with Mick Taylor.
     
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  6. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Will you come back to me, Sweet Lady Genevieve?

    Haven't read the thread all the way through, but so far...

    I'm wondering if the "harmonica blast" might be the Mellotron. Some literature for the keyboard claimed to have a "harmonica" preset of sorts. Can't remember where I saw it though. There was also a website that had samples of every sound the Mellotron could make and I distinctly remember seeing a sample for "harmonica". I'll try to see if I can find it in the morning and post it here. I'd be willing to bet the harmonica sound is the Mellotron.
     
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  7. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    Some of the books list Bill Wyman as playing mellotron on the track.
     
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  8. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

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    CA USA
    Brian was almost like a conductor, producer and a songwriter, he really added the little things in the studio that made the bigger things jump out and be more profound, he was very good at that
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  9. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    Could be wrong but I believe the backing track of the song was recorded live (before overdubs with vocals, organs and stuff), and there are two guitars, Keith and Brian.
    Never knew there's a mellotron in there, maybe that's the harmonica sound? When this comes in you can hear it like a tape speeding up very fast, that's a millisecond detail.
     
  10. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philidelphia, PA
    It was recorded live with Brian and Keith playing two acoustics, basic drum track. That's the same way Street Fighting Man was recorded (no electric guitars on SFM). Then electric guitar overdubs. Then vocals and organ.
     
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  11. Darrin L.

    Darrin L. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Golden, CO
    :laughup::biglaugh::laughup::biglaugh::laughup::biglaugh:
     
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  12. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    I think the keyword in that post was "almost". Brian Jones as a conductor- sure, I can just picture him, so stoned and/or drunk he could barely stand, trying to conduct. Producer? Well, I think you actually have to show up for the sessions in at least a relatively sober frame of mind in order to produce, though to give Brian his due he did do that Degree Of Murder soundtrack. Songwriter? Apparently that was one thing Brian Jones certainly wasn't.

    IMO Brian Jones started out with a lot of natural talent and ability which unfortunately his bad habits put paid to rather quickly. A sad story, granted, but an instructive one as well. Did he play guitar on "Flash"? Well, maybe he did and maybe he didn't but in the end it's Keith's guitar and bass parts that really stand out in the track.
     
  13. phillyal1

    phillyal1 Forum Resident

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    philadelphia, pa.
    I have listened to "JJFlash" hundreds of times and it still sounds fresh -- pure adrenaline . Brilliant rock and roll record, top to bottom !
     
  14. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    There would be if he had been replaced by a square peg like MT
     
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  15. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Will you come back to me, Sweet Lady Genevieve?

    So here is the Mellotron website with all the clips:
    soundframe

    I don't see harmonica anywhere, but I swear I read that there was a "harmonica" preset on the Mellotron. "Accordion" seems to be the closest sounding thing to that wheezy noise before Bill's organ solo.
     
  16. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA USA
    I definitely should have chosen some different words here in describing Brian's role and importance to the band in those early RS times. More like.... Visionary, Director, Plotter (a book writing term).
    I don't take anything away from any of the Stones in all their formations and years, they did what they do, make music and very good at it at that obviously, I like and totally respect. Brian was basically the founder and had ideas of what kind of band he wanted to start, the sound, style, direction. So you can say he got the stone rolling, and it rolled alright, on and on, and still rolls and rocks today.
    The info I learned on Brian was from a book on him called Brian Jones the making of the Rolling Stones by Paul Trynka. A interesting read.
     
  17. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA USA
    All good my friend, I was a little Jones'd out last night making post, here is my update and reply to my OP..

    I definitely should have chosen some different words here in describing Brian's role and importance to the band in those early RS times. More like.... Visionary, Director, Plotter (a book writing term).
    I don't take anything away from any of the Stones in all their formations and years, they did what they do, make music and very good at it, at that obviously, I like and totally respect. Brian was basically the founder and had ideas of what kind of band he wanted to start, the sound, style, direction. So you can say he got the stone rolling, and it rolled alright, on and on, and still rolls and rocks today.
    The info I learned on Brian was from a book on him called Brian Jones the making of the Rolling Stones by Paul Trynka. A interesting read.
     
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  18. Avenging Robot

    Avenging Robot Senior Member

    I was just watching on YouTube the Stones play The Last Time and was watching Brian’s hands. Without his guitar line, you had no song.
     
  19. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Will you come back to me, Sweet Lady Genevieve?

    I quickly discovered this when I tried to play an acoustic version of the song last year. I played all the chords, but I knew that without the riff that Brian is playing, the song is nothing. If I had had more gigs after that one, I'd have invested in a looping stations, just so I could have the riff playing alongside me.
     
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  20. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    The 5.1 mix is basically a stereo mix with a little ambience. Mostly pointless. As I recall, there’s no more Brian in it than there is in the stereo mix.
     
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  21. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philidelphia, PA
    On a different note from Brian for a minute:
    Who plays the solo/breakdown on Shattered? I've heard some say it's all Keith. Others say it's all Ronnie. Anyone know for sure?
     
  22. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    A fine book, but there are many errors as well.
    For example, Trynka wants to put Brian way above the other members in terms of musicality and intelligence.
    And indeed he does that as long as he can twist the story a little for the benefit of his subject.
    The report that Brian overdubbed and replaced the instruments on the early records, both Keith's guitars and Bill's bass, without anyone noticed, are simply plain false.
    And that is alone based on the fact that it technically was impossible to do at Regent Sound studio in 1964.
    It was a 2-track studio, so the only option of making an overdub, was to play along to the tape, while it was transferred to another machine. Any replacement of an instrument was not possible. It was, however, possible at RCA (3-track), but the story in the book refers to Regent Sound.

    And that is only one example of a major error in that book. Plus Brian, of course, can be excused for everything. His bandmates can't. Of course.
     
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  23. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philidelphia, PA
    I think with a lot of these things the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Were things Brian wrote possibly the basis for songs and he never got credit? I don't see why not. We know for a fact this happened to Ry Cooder and Mick Taylor. I do believe for example that Ruby Tuesday was probably mostly written by Brian, or written by Brian and Keith together with only lyrical input from Jagger. I do believe the actual extent of his contributions will never be known. But things like that Trynka claim are too farfetched even if the technology had been available. I do believe that of the early group, Mick and Brian were the most articulate if not the most intelligent. I do believe Brian, while not a good guitarist (above average slide guitarist for the early 1960s, but he was lazy and never advanced his talent with it) had an ear for melody that Keith didn't develop until later. Like I said...The truth of things is probably in the middle. I do not think Brian was the overrated guy who did little to nothing that some believe, nor do I believe he was the man behind the curtain as others do. He was the 1960s Mick Taylor in terms of his musical impact on the band: Overlooked and undercredited.

    I would say Brian, Nicky Hopkins, and Mick Taylor all probably contributed equal to the band.

    Nicky Hopkins probably wrote more songs for the band, or at least, the structure and basis of songs, than anyone else and he does not get half the acclaim Brian or Mick Taylor do. I am absolutely certain there are a good number of songs that simply would not exist if Nicky Hopkins hadn't been there.
     
  24. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Well this is another kettle of worms... Please explain what and how Nicky had to exist for in order for certain songs to be there? My intent is not just to speculate on this stuff, I mean Nicky was an amazing player no doubt. But to claim he created more than parts over changes that were presented to him is in another league.
     
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  25. rock4ev

    rock4ev Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA USA
    Hello, I am not defending or championing Brian Jones, I don't believe the book is all true nor never stated that.
    I don't stand in Trynka's corner or back him up nor defend him either, the book had some interesting stuff and some rang from other sources that have been told over the years. Brian was Brian,I originally was posting only to mean he did some small things that made things big and sound bigger, that's all, plain and simple. Kieth, Mick, Charlie and Bill were a huge part of it all and always were and will be, Mick.T did his thing great and Ronnie is simply amazing.
    I am just a fan of the band, from it's start to present.
    Cheers and beers!
     
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