Teaching my Budgie to sing (by rolling 6DJ8)

Now that I have finally dialed in my speakers and settled on the best tube combination in my amplifier, the last thing remaining is to fine-tune the phono stage. My Parks Budgie is very responsive to tube rolling and while showing glimpses of greatness with each, I have yet to find a tube that would be 100% satisfactory.

This is what I have tried so far:
electro-harmonix 6922 (stock):

Pro: Came included with the unit.
Con: Unrefined, bright, harsh.​

Amperex 60's Bugle Boy 6DJ8:

Pro: 3D holographic soundstage, vivid midrange, great detail, controlled bass.
Con: The forward midrange, as alluring as it is, gets tiresome very quick, unclean sibilance exaggerated, feels too bright.​

Matsushita National PCC88/7DJ8:

Pro: Relaxed, smooth, well tonally balanced sound.
Con: Very flat sounding, no macrodynamics. Sucks the life out of music.​

Mullard 60's PCC88/7DJ8:

Pro: Liquid beautiful midrange, not as 3D as the Bugle Boys but still very involving, never tiring or aggressive, great dynamics.
Con: Bass is too much, not particularly boomy, but annoying all the same. Treble a bit rolled off, overall bottom heavy feel.​

I'd like to find a tube with great midrange (like the Mullards), but with more neutral, balanced tonality.

Things I have contemplated:
US Amperex 6922 (expensive and I'm afraid they could be too aggressive like the Bugle Boys)
Telefunken 6DJ8 or PCC88 (again, quite expensive as an experiment, plus it's a minefield as some of them are Siemens made and liable to sound different)
NOS Tesla (not JJ) E88CC (not as expensive, but is it going to be another meh tube like the Matsushita?)

Anybody has tried anything else in the Budgie? What was your experience?

 

Reflector 6H23p-EB / 6922 (Premium) I have these in my Audible Illusions M3A > nice sound and they last a long time
This premium Russian built NOS 6922 tube replacement is also known by various Russian names, including 6N23n-EB, 6H23N-EB and 6N23. These are the hard to find NOS (new old stock) of premium quality in both sound and construction.

sean

 

I have tried the Orange Globe Amperex 7308 in a DAC and the difference was HUGE!

Suddenly, the sound was 3D with much deeper and musical soundstage. Fantastic bass. Really, a great tube not talked a lot about. Sold by Upscale Audio, a reliable tube dealer.

Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin!

 

I'm using the gold lion 6922 "reissue" in mine and think they sound great! Compared to the stock tubes they are much more smooth, clean and have excellent bass that's not too bloated

 

That one I'd very much like to try, but man, are they expensive! They are said to be less bright than the Bugle Boys, but have a similar character.

 

I've read in a review that they are warm, forward and loud in the Budgie. Maybe I need to give the New Sensor factory another chance. I had the "Gold Lion" reissue KT88s and hated their guts (too bright), but maybe the signal tubes are better.

 

Got mine off eBay for half the price. Definitely not rare but you pay a premium through Upscale Audio to have them test the tubes. Check the seller reviews to ensure it's a trustworthy seller before forking over your hard-earned cash.

 

Do you mean these? https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/6h23-6922-type-3?variant=21828906693
I wish someone tried them in the Budgie before I fork out the dough...

 

Yeah, Kevin charges a lot, but I have yet to get a subpar, noisy or microphonic tube from him (or Brent Jessee for that matter). This is for a phono stage and quietness is essential, so maybe the extra money is worth it. One dud off eBay and suddenly the Upscale prices start to look attractive .

But I hear you, as this is an experiment, maybe getting a bunch of used tubes off eBay to figure out what I really like would be the way to go.

I have to say, though, the Budgie stage has been absolutely solid-state quiet with ALL the tubes I have tested so far. The unit really shows promise.

 

I Guess you could say they are warmer than the EH 6922 tubes but not in a mushy way. I don't find them too forward at all! My speakers are Klipsch KLF-30 too so I would know right away if they were too forward haha.

 

I run a Musical Fidelity X10-D and have tried a LOT of different 6DJ8/7DJ8/6922/7308s from around the globe. Amperex US 6922s are not a bright sounding/forward sounding tube by any means, and the Amperex US made 7308 rules the roost in my stereo - these 2 tubes are balanced from lows to highs. Keep in mind that true 6922s from the Philips factories are a 5,000 hour rated tube and the 7308 is a 10,000 hour rated tube - that's a looooong lifespan for your money. Take a look back in Classifieds - I have a number of possibilities available...

 

Here are what I've tried in my Budgie. I started with the EH's and meh.
Sylvanias were next and a more rock sound, but I wouldn't say super detailed or refined. But I did much prefer them to the EH's.
Siemens, super detailed, wide soundstage, but a tad bright in my set up.
Mullard blackburn (not shown as one blew) were very warm and pleasant, nice soundstage. I wish I had them longer than the week (before they blew lol)
Reflektor, I have not tried them much but they are smooth. Not as nice as the mullards imo, but still musical and warmish.

Currently in are the JAN 7308 Amperex which likely won't leave my rig anytime soon. Very detailed and smooth, not as warm as the mullards but not bright like the siemens. In the middle for my taste and gear. They sound great to my ears!

If my Amperex died today I would likely put the Reflektors back in.

 

What cartridge do you have out of curiousity? Any loading going on? Not necessarily all about the tubes

 

Thanks, great post!

This is the third endorsement for the Amperex and Reflektor tubes, so I better heed it.

If anyone has compared the Dutch Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 with the US Amperex 7308, in any gear, please post impressions.

 

I am currently trying to tune the stage for Goldring 1042. It is a sparkly cartridge for a MM, but turning impedance down from 47k seems to choke it rather than improve it. Going up makes it worse. I did try the Budgie in my other system and spent some time rolling the tubes in the main amp and tried other sources to eliminate the possibility of some serious imbalance elsewhere. I also run a ShureV15/JicoHE on the turntable and with it the Bugle Boys sound tolerable at 47k, but obviously the detail and 3D magic is largely lost. With other tubes I run the Shure at 57k.

 

What year bb are you using. Some vintages are less bright.

If you want a smoother sounding tube without giving up too much of the Amperex soundstage.

Try the Ei Czech 6dj8

ECC88 6DJ8 EI Yugoslavia NOS Matched Pair (Philips A frame getter ) | eBay

 

Ei 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-frame

 

The BBs are 1960/65 according to Brent Jessee. I can't read the codes any more as they are partially smeared.
EI is Yugoslavian, not Czechoslovakian, but good suggestion. They are said to be made on Telefunken equipment.

 

​

Interesting. I don't have a Budgie so I don't know how these tubes sound in that circuit but I've been through a bunch of '60s and 70s Holland Amperex 6DJ8s -- Bugle Boys, A-Frames, globe logos -- over the years. In my experience the A-frames can be brighter than the other two , but the Bugle Boys were always in the circuits I've used them with, if anything, a bit warm and soft-edged, not forward or bright.

 

FWIW, I've heard some 6N23P-EV that have been some of the best sounding tubes I've heard in circuits using 6DJ8's -- fast, detailed, deep, natural. But they've also frequently gone noisy on me evenutally, vs. those old Dutch Amperexes that will run for decades in a circuit that doesn't torture them.

 

Yes, I've wondered about the circuit influence. It would have to be specific to the Bugle Boys, as none of the other tubes I've tried in it (with the exception of the stock EHs) are even remotely too bright or forward.

 

You have an unmatched pair of amperex 6dj8's.

1960- large hoop getter with grey risers
1965- small hoop getter with silver risers

do some research- the two vintages have a different sound

and yes, the Ei tube is made in yugo pre war. they were made on Philips equipment

 

FYI-

Getter.

Round / Halo/ O / Hoop

the terminology is describing the same shape

 

Are they these? www.thetubestore.com - Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 Audio Tubes Sorry, I am new to this tube thing, but your description sounds ideal.

 

Darn it, you are right! I relied on Brent's expertise and didn't question it, thinking 60's Bugle Boy is a 60's Bugle Boy... I did notice channel imbalance a few times, but attributed it to the particular mix. I'm going to put them back into the Budgie and play a mono record. I'll report back. I wonder if this could explain the whole mystery with those tubes.