New (used) Turntable: Thorens vs. Dual. Opinions?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Pavol Stromcek, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I bought mine in 1977, and it's never missed a day. No upgrades, never did any real maintenance on it. It just works.

    During all these years my Technics SP15 has developed unresolvable servo control issues... my Dual's auto return sometimes fails and it usually needs about 15 minutes to settle into the correct speed... the Pioneer PL12 gave up the ghost years ago...

    The genius behind the Thorens is its simplicity: A 60Hz synchronous motor that could tow a truck, a belt, a heavy platter. A switch to apply AC power. There literally is no circuitry involved.
     
  2. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Simple can be good, very good. :)
    -Bill
     
  3. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    I've been using a Thorens TD 145 since the early 80's. My father bought it new in maybe 75? Every 5 years or so I bring it to my turntable guru for a tune up, and its never missed a day (knock on wood lol). Mine also has no trouble with 45's with genuine belts. Also, the auto lift feature is awesome, no jumping up for me at the end of a side. Il never replace mine
     
  4. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    I've got both, get the Thorens
     
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  5. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    VN Thorens. Dave is great to work with.
     
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  6. Tim Irvine

    Tim Irvine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    My preferences would be 1) VN, 2) non-VN Thorens, and 3) Dual. Options 1 and 2 are rock solid and very low maintenance. I currently own a VN150, probably my "rest of my (hopefully long) life" table. Beautiful, musical, and "five minutes from opening the box to playing" easy. Plus it's pretty. I loved both of my non-VNs, a TD 125 with SME and an all stock TD150. I've never owned a Dual but played plenty back in the late 69s and early 70s. Very nice as well but not my top pick. In that era I also really liked Empires.
     
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  7. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Every five years? I better get busy because I'm way behind schedule. Idlers are complex but it's been a lot longer than five years since my 1229Q or 1019 have been serviced. One day they will, I'm not questioning that.
     
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  8. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    It's interesting, though not particularly surprising, that so far the Thorens votes are way outnumbering the Dual votes in this thread. This has me wondering how people might compare/contrast a Thorens TD 160 or Dual 701 against my current turntables: my recently deceased Denon DP-51f, or my backup table, an early Technics SL-1400.
     
  9. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Thorens. No comparison. My tech refuses to even look at any Duals, and he is the one who wires tonearms for Vinyl Nirvana.
     
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  10. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    They're different animals. I own a Denon DP-60L and an AR-ES1 belt drive. I don't even play the same type of music on them, thus, will not make a direct comparison. The suspended belt table is better for jazz, classical, and any other acoustic music. The direct drive is better at anything that has electric/electronic instruments/sounds.
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    This is Dual's recommendation, their manuals say so.
     
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  12. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    That's cool. I suppose it would depend on how many hours you use the turntable too. I split my listening between three Duals so maybe that helps. It's easy to ship a turntable to Bill. I'll be ready when the time comes!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  13. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    In 45+ years of listening, I have yet to hear any belt or direct drive table beat an idler, Dual or otherwise, when it comes to heavy percussive music, whether it be rock'n'roll, blues, jazz, etc. Nothing delivers a gut punch better.
     
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  14. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    50/50 job.
     
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  15. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Well, after lots of research and even a little agonizing, I decided on a Vinyl Nirvana Thorens TD-160 Super.

    So far, I'm happy. The sound, when compared to my Technics SL-1400 or the Denon DP-51f, is slightly fuller, warmer even. It's like the Technics and Denon are a touch brighter and thinner. (All TTs have the same cartridge, an AT440MLa (w/ 'b' stylus replacement), so I think these are valid comparisons). Certain lower frequencies seem a tad fuller or punchier, the midrange seems a bit more robust, and the higher frequencies have a nice silky quality to them. The overall sound has a certain heft or body to it that I like. Whether this difference is more attributable to the tonearm (a Rega RB220), the wiring, or the suspended sub-chassis and solid-wood plinth of the table itself, I have no idea! But I am hearing a difference, and I'm liking what I'm hearing.

    The suspended chassis takes a lot of getting used to, though. The springs are so incredibly sensitive and springy that even working the tonearm's cueing lever requires an extremely feather-light touch. I'm also working the tonearm manually way, way less than normal. The slightest touch and this thing jiggles up and down like jello. In order to clean the stylus with the ZeroDust, I have to wedge a little piece of foam under the tonearm's arm board so that the tonearm and chassis don't bounce around when lowering the stylus into the gel. So, that part of having a VN Thorens is a bit strange, but once the stylus is in the groove, things are quite nice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  16. Gasman1003

    Gasman1003 Forum Diplomat.

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Excellent, enjoy, it's a friend for life.
     
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  17. Beauty. I never cared for those servo Denon/JVC/Sony tables and think you made a wise choice. Don't know what was wrong with the Denon but happy you never caved and threw more money at it.There might be an adjustment phase moving to the quirks of a suspended table but in the long run, you've made a considerable upgrade. Enjoy.
     
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  18. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    This is one of the reasons I've never upgraded from my TD145. Every time I've shopped tables under 2000, they sound thin to me, and this is with the stock tp-16 arm, so its probably the plinth and suspended chassis I'm guessing.

    Glad you're enjoying the Thorens sir!
     
  19. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    You will get used to it.
     
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  20. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I also have to add that it's an absolutely gorgeous turntable. Dave does a wonderful job with these. I'll have to post a pic when I'm able to photograph it in good light.
     
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  21. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    Exactly. Never had a bit of speed problem with my TD-125 or TD-160. Speed control not needed. :thumbsup:

    I did sell both my Thorens however, out sheer boredom. But the were probably the best sounding tables I've owned. The only thing I didn't like was setting the "bounce" right on a TD-125. What a pain! The TD-160 was set it and forget it, but I wasn't really excited about the arm, although it is a good arm. I like less complicated looking arms.
     
  22. ddarch

    ddarch Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    My two cents on the Music Hall Cruise Control II, from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

    The number one reason to use is if you are extremely susceptible to pitchiness. The ability to adjust rpms in tenths is wonderful. Problem solved with a few pushes of a button.

    A second reason to use it is it will clean up the ac signal from the wall outlet. If you already have components doing that, then moot point.

    The third reason to use it is, because the belt stays in the 45 rpm position, when the cruise control on the table is running at 33rpm, the motor is actually spinning at fewer revolutions, and is thus more quiet.

    Dave

    PS Thanks for all the kind comments.
     
  23. Sharp 1080

    Sharp 1080 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    I am surprised I found this thread. I have actually owned both turntables. I had the Dual and then sold it and got the Thorens TD-160. The Thorens was much quieter and better functioning overall which allowed more music to flow thru the tonearm and cartridge. The Thorens was eventually replaced by an Oracle Delphi MkII.
     
  24. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    Would you consider a VPI? I owed this turntable and have absolutely nothing but praises for it's design and performance, whisper quiet, looks fantastic and if you shop around, you can get a very nice price, just have to work at it! I have owned both Dual and Thorens, and one of my objections to the Thorens tables are the suspension. I would walk by it and the platter bounces around like a darn trampoline, which is why you see so many mounted on walls, and that was a non starter for me. The engineering of the VPI SCOUT is just wonderful, the cartridge set up with their gig is easy and quick and I really loved mine. :righton:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SF Bay Area

    Well, considering I ended up buying a Vinyl Nirvana Thorens TD-160 Super, there's no need to consider the VPI for now. Also, I made/installed a wall-mounted shelf for the Thorens, which was absolutely necessary in my apartment, so there's no need to tiptoe around to prevent the platter from jiggling.
     
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