Original/Unaltered "Star Wars" Trilogy on Blu-Ray in 2017

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Bowie Fett, Feb 23, 2017.

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  1. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Or Leia with a branch. She hits a stormtrooper once across the shoulder with a branch at close range, and that's it. The stormtrooper is done. :)
     
  2. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    At this point in the saga, I've come to the theory that Storm trooper armor isn't made to project it's wearer. It's pretty much only meant to intimidate the common folk in the universe to submit or die.
     
  3. daca

    daca Currently on Double Secret Probation

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    As great as Star Wars was, one of the most wise people in the galaxy offers up one of, if not the most ridiculous lines in the entire series:

    [​IMG]

    Just goes to show that Lucas was making stuff up as he went, even before he became crazy Uncle George.
     
  4. Rocker

    Rocker Senior Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Interesting video on the subject:

     
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  5. beatleswho

    beatleswho Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chile
    It would be fantastic if Criterion Collection release the Original Star Wars Trilogy remastered in 4K on Blu Ray. Maybe i am dreaming too much but it sounds good.
     
  6. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Why is it white then? Much better to make it black if that's the aim.
     
  7. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Black shows so much dirt though.
     
  8. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    What a great shot!
     
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  9. csd79

    csd79 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hungary
    Do you have any info about a second transfer that was made in 1982 for VHS and later that was also released on LD in 1985 (with slightly different colors and P&S cropping)? Also, could you elaborate on the letterbox transfer? AFAIK the first letterboxes US release of the film was the 1989 LD, which was based on a japanese transfer made in 1986.
     
  10. csd79

    csd79 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hungary
    I was under the impression that when making a movie (in the film days at least), all the choices in lighting, set design, makeup etc. were made knowing that the generations of copying from the negative to the release print will alter the contrast and colors of the image. If not, than that invalidates pretty much every print that was ever made, no? It seems strange to indicate that only the negative represent the original intent of the filmmaker, knowing that nobody will ever see that.
     
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  11. What about the THX European Laser Disc releases from 1995? Were the transfers also done in the US or Japan? I guess separate scannings, color correction and masters were done for the NTSC US/Canada and Japan releases and repeat all the process for the PAL masters used in Europe, am I right? I still have my Spanish THX Laser Discs from 1995 and they didn't look like NTSC to PAL conversions to me. I also have the 1995 "faces" US NTSC (Darth Vader in this case) Star Wars Laser Disc. Regarding this I'm 100% the NTSC and PAL Laser Discs were sourced from different video masters, at the beginning of Star Wars when C3PO says "did get that?" there is a film scratch in the middle of the screen on the Spanish PAL Laser Disc, this scratch is not present on the US NTSC Laser Disc, and I'm talking abouth both PAL and NTSC versions being THX mastered.
    Regarding THX mastering at the time,what video format was used as a master? Maybe D2 digital video?
     
  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I can make the same argument with a print. A print is still color-timed by the lab, and you can't just load up the optical printer and hit "go" and expect the print to be perfect. The decisions made by the lab color timer are still creative decisions. I have seen multiple prints of Star Wars, some done by Technicolor NY, some by Technicolor North Hollywood, some done by Deluxe/Hollywood, and they were all different. Prints in 1977 were different from the 1980 reissue prints and the 1983 prints. Most of the original 1977 prints have badly faded as the yellow and cyan dye layers evaporate, leaving mostly magenta. Which of these do you use for reference?

    The answer is: you have to use experience, common sense, and (hopefully) good taste. It's not unlike the challenge of remixing a classic record album from scratch. There's a lot of elements you have to balance, preserving the original intent while also presenting the best possible version of the work.

    The letterbox transfer was not done in Japan -- it was done in Hollywood by veteran Modern Videofilm colorist Lou Levinson. 99% of Fox's work was done at Modern during that era, with some exceptions; they also used Deluxe Video's own facilities near Detroit for some projects, and also the old Deluxe Video facility at the (now-closed) Fernwood plant in East Hollywood. I believe in those days, co-producer Howard Kazanjian supervised and approved the video work. Lucas only supervised the film lab correction.

    Interesting story about the second transfer: after the original one was made, a few months later the VTR was rewinding, and due to a technical snafu (bad reels from 3M), the tape snarled and turned into total spaghetti. After several threatened lawsuits and much teeth-gnashing, 3M agreed to reimburse Modern for an entirely new transfer done from scratch, matched to the original 1982 transfer. I'm not sure if Lou did this or the original 1982 colorist, Pat Kennedy, did the mastering on it.

    This was all back in the day when they were using Rank-Cintel scanners and (generally) 35mm interpositives, running the actual film elements back and forth in real time. The negatives look better, but the studios were -- understandably -- reluctant to send those out on some projects. Now, they'll do it provided it's on pin-registered transports done at a fairly slow speed, like 4fps or 8fps, scanning to data files. From that point on, the film is untouched and only the data files are used.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  13. What video format was used in those times as a video master? Was it plain NTSC composite video or another format that allowed 24 fps and component video?
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    The original Star Wars video masters in the 1980s were on the Bosch 1" B format, with 2 tracks of Dolby A audio. Both 525 NTSC and 625 PAL masters were made (separately). The NTSC video was 29.97 video frames per second -- 2:3 pulldown was used to convert the 24-frame film to video -- but the PAL video was at 25fps, with the film sped up 4.1%.
     
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  15. Speed up issues aside,which version looked the best for you, the NTSC or the PAL master? What about color,was PAL really better on this regard than the NTSC master?
     
  16. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Amazing info, @Vidiot. You're a treasure on this web site!

    Anything interesting you can tell us about the 1993 CAV Box Set? I worked at a laserdisc retailer in Boston when that was first released and have vivid memories of receiving the first delivery of our ordered copies at our store.
     
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  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I had already departed Modern by the time that laserdisc set was released, but as far as I know, the masters were still the late-1980s letterboxed version done for Japan. The general rule in video mastering is that there are at least five different versions of everything (during that era):

    1) the original 1980s all-analog composite master (NTSC and PAL)
    2) a later late-1980s/early-1990s digital component master (NTSC and PAL)
    3) sometimes an improved standard-def digital component master in the mid-1990s (used for DVD)
    4) an early HD master (late 1990s)
    5) a much higher-quality HD version done in the 2000s.

    The later is typically scanned at 4K and sometimes processed in 4K as well, and then they derive HD submasters from that. You could say it's kind of like audio mastering done at 192kHz/24-bit, and then they sub-sample it down to 44.1kHz/16-bit for CD/iTunes release.

    I can tell you I did a ton of mastering work in the 1980s and 1990s that I would love the chance to redo today, because I know the equipment is better and I also have another 20+ years experience, so my perspective is better.

    No, zero differences between NTSC and PAL through closed-circuit transmission. There are differences in broadcast, but we only saw stuff on a wire. If anything, the PAL looked a lot worse (to me) because of the 25fps flicker. My joke was, "PAL stands for 'Pretty Awful Looking.'" We did both NTSC and PAL mastering every day of the week and were in a position to compare them for thousands of hours on $20,000 monitors. I was not a fan.

    HD was a whole new ballpark and to me, standard-def became moot once that came out.
     
  18. I agree with you about PAL flicker. I bought my second Laser Disc player in 1995 which was a Philips Matchline (it's design was great and worked like a charm) Multi-Standard so I could play both NTSC and PAL discs. I got amazed at how stable NTSC Laser Discs looked next to a PAL one. When I got my first DVD player I bought it from Amazon US and it was obviously Region 1 only. Player cost almost half of what the same Pioneer model cost here, it was cheaper to import DVDs from the US than buying them at any local shop or department store in Spain, and I wasn't interested in PAL because of flicker, which I found very annoying, and speed-up. I did the same with BD back in 2007, Region A-1 all the way, my first Region B-2 BD player is a Sony UBP X-800 UHD BD player which I got 7 months ago, and I still get ALL my movie discs from the US and some ocasional buying from the UK. I hate movie titles translated into Spanish.
     
  19. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    You do know that BD doesn't use PAL/NTSC right?
     
  20. Of course I do, and I also do know that some BDs may have HD interlaced video at 60 Hz or 50 Hz, or some extras on NTSC or PAL.
     
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  21. GlastoEls

    GlastoEls Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London
    Don't suppose anyone has heard anything on this?

    Been quiet for a long time now.
     
    Encuentro likes this.
  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    There was a dirt-removal pass just for Vader, and I believe they concealed some reflections as well.

    There are overseas Blu-ray discs done at 25P, which is not technically PAL but it is a different framerate. The hope is that worldwide Blu-rays will keep feature films at the original speed, which is generally (but not always) 24fps. [Actually, a piece of Attack of the Clones was shot at 25P, but that's kind of a secret.]

    Yeah, I own an X800 myself and have been very happy with it. The menus aren't stupid and I can figure out the remote in the dark, plus the picture quality is terrific and the transport is quiet.
     
  23. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    This was reported by The Digital Fix recently.

    [ EDITOR'S NOTE ] We've been asked about the 'original negatives' statement above. These were the words our contact used, but as many will know, George Lucas previously claimed that the original negatives had been used/altered in the creation of his 'special editions'. We are attempting to clarify this part of the story to confirm whether this release will contain a) the original films, b) the special editions, or c) both/something in between!

    Update (22:20 on 11/04/19): Following a second conversation our contact helped clarify that Disney are working towards delivering something that will "please fans" and that the original material has come from a "variety of source ... much of the original film and negative stock was in poor condition even before George worked on the Special Editions" and the restoration team sought out the "best possible version" of each scene within the LucasFilm and Fox archives. The original trilogy 4K remaster was started way back in 2014 and has been through a number of iterations as new alternative/better copies of some scenes have come to light. The print watched by Gareth Edwards has had some improvement since he viewed it but everything other than Episodes II and III has been locked in now.
    Exclusive: Disney are working on a 4K Blu-ray box set for Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga (updated)
     
  24. I now own both the Sony X-800 which I only use as a music player (SACD/CD/music files) and two weeks ago I got an inexpensive (and unavailable in the US) Panasonic DP-UB420 UHD BD player. Yo gotta get a Panasonic player Vidiot, the UB420 that is an HDMI-only version of the UB820 literally trounces the Sony X-800 in picture quality. I don't know if it's its superior chroma upsampling (I have its HDMI video output set to 12 bit 4:4:4 that is what Panasonic recommends if the TV set supports it, mine does), the HDR Optimizer that with my mid nit (around 600/700 nits) Samsung set does miracles, or both at the same time. All I can say is that the Panny has brought new life to my UHD BD collection. Mark, if you have the chance give a Panasonic UHD BD player a try with your OLED set, I'm sure there's some store in your are with a 15 day trial policy,but believe me, do it, try one, chances are you will not want to return it and keep it.
    I must say I got my Panasonic UB-DP420 for dirty little money, it's only sold in the UK by Curry's PC World at, surprise, 120 GBP. They don't ship to Spain but I asked a forum member from blu-ray.com if he could do me the favor to get one for me and mail it home if I transfered him the money in advance, and he kindly did. I ended up paying 138 GBP for it includding shipping, a real bargain. I can't be happier with it, it's an outstanding disc spinner, it not only makes UHD BD's look outstanding, it also does a great 1080p to 4K (I know UHD 2160p actually) upconversion, much better than the one on the Sony X-800 (I had it set to output Original Resolution and let the Samsung TV do the upconversion) and even my Samsung set.
    I don't know what's inside those Panasonic HCX Processor but they seem to do some real magic with video processing. I'm flat broke (I've been since I had my accident back in 2012), if I can afford it sure you can too and you won't regret,believe me.
     
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  25. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    To be fair, the “bad guys can’t aim” trope has been in existence since probably the beginning of movies. Star Wars didn’t exactly deconstruct these things as much as it supercharged and combined a lot of familiar elements in an exciting, cinematic way.
     
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