My new Nagaoka MP-500 phono cartridge

I bought a new TT ( Hanss Aucoustic T-20) equipped with Jelco 750D arm and Nagaoka MP 500. I had (still have, up for sale ) before Pro-ject RPM 9.2 Evolution equipped with Ortofon 2M Black. Yes there are a rather big difference in sound i think, Ortofon is more "crystal clear" lot of details (even hiss and surface sound") but not that it is distortion and unpleasant listen to. and Nagaoka is more "sweet romantic" and forgiven but yet with lot of details, maybe a little more detailed bassnotes on the 2M black, you can easily tell if there is a electric or aucostic bassinstrument. I can´t really decide what i prefer... I like them booth.

 

Well, my Pro Ject turntable with 2M black stand beside the Hanss turntable, a little bored today so i replaced the Nagaoka cartridge on the Hanss with the 2M Black. And what a fantastic cartridge 2M Black is, it absolutely destroys the Nagaoka, it is better on every parameter you can think of, it really sounded a little more of everything on the Hanss turntable, i don´t know why but it´s a fact. I will buy an extra head shell so i can compare them both in a much faster way than replacing. It takes about an hour to do a proper installation and all adjustments with the protractor. I will probably sell the Pro-Ject without cartridge or maybe equipped with the Nagaoka.

 

I'm at day 2 with my new MP-500 and I'm really liking it so far.
I'm puzzled by these specs. This shows dynamic compliance as 12 x 10-6 cm/dyne while the Nagaoka European website says 8.5 x 10-6 cm/dyne. Other sources seem to state 8.5 too, I couldn't find any source stating 12 except for this table in this thread.
If it's 8.5, than it matches my Technics SL-1210GR tonearm giving resonance just over 9Hz. If it's 12, it's still good, just under 8Hz, but not as good.

 

I am definitely not a fan of the Ortofon sound. Clinical and shrill. No thanks.

 

Or power cords

 

From measurements @ 10 Hz with test records, the compliance of the Nagaokas are around 18-22. The recommended VTF of the MP-500 of 1.3-1.8 suggests the same range. There is a lot of info about that in other thread on e.g. VE about this, here is the first one measured by TNT audio.

Nagaoka MP11 phono cartridge - [English]

 

But according to Nagaoka.eu the cartridges in the MP series don't have all the same compliance nor the same recommended VTF. So I guess I'd need measurements for the MP-500.

 

You can always get a test record and try to figure out the RF yourself. You need to make sure your phono preamp isn't filtering out the low frequencies though. Once you record the track, view in spectral analysis.

 

Yes, but also as I mentioned, they have also been measured by Miller research:

table of cartridge measurements: compliance, output, VTA- Vinyl Engine

And by others:

Just what is the compliance of Nagaoka cartridges?- Vinyl Engine

 

Thank you. 22 gives me 7,5Hz according to the Ortofon formula. The same as the 2M Black. Not ideal but within the optimal range by a small margin: "Resonance frequency within 7-12Hz is optimal for the system". Same as the 2M Black by the way. What I found interesting is that the output measured 3.2mV, close to the published spec of 3mV, while the 2M Black measured 5.8mV against the published spec of 5mV, which is a big difference (2M Red measured 6.6mV against published specs at 5.5mV, which is a huge difference).

 

Yes it is on the low side. However damping of the stylus/suspension is also an important factor. A low resonance at +3 dB peak at 7.5 Hz may be better choice than +6 dB peak at 8.5 Hz. You can only know this if you measure the actual resonance both vertical and horizontal. Below is the resonance with and without damping brush on my Shure V15Vx/JICO stylus with a 10 g arm. Vertical resonance peaks at +3 dB @ 8.5 Hz; the damping brush completely removes the peaking. For lateral response peaking is at +7 dB @ 6.5 Hz, the brush fibers help do damp this to +4 dB @ 7 Hz. The reason for the difference between vertical and horizontal resonance is most probably due to different mass of the tonearm parts for those directions. My current arm of 4 g gives about 10.5 Hz in both directions (without damper).

Also note that the important frequencies to avoid is 0.55 Hz for horisontal direction (off-center records) and 3-6 Hz for the vertical direction (warps). 6.5 Hz is >3 octaves above 0.55 Hz while 8.5 Hz is rather close to the warp frequencies of 3-6 Hz.

 

I've been experimenting with the MP-500 for the last week. I settled down with more mass on the tonearm that the compliance measurements would recommend (a heavier headshell), and with more VTF (2mm higher than what it was supposed to be), which is weird, but it is what it is.

I haven't reached the 30 hours break in period but I'm probably close to 20. Anyway, it sounded great with the first record I tried, but I had to tweak the set up a little bit later to fit better other records and maybe it broke in a bit in the meantime.

I'm really impressed with this cartridge.

First, it seems to sound good with every record and tracks free of sibilance and IGD even in my usual suspect records. In this aspect it is almost as good as the microline of my VM540ML but I still think the AT is slightly better on a couple of worn out records I have (probably the stylus profile of the AT touches the grooves in places where the conicals and ellipticals that damaged them didn't touch). That microline is a winner, but the line contact of the MP-500 is just as good (except it's slightly worse in this two very worn out records), both followed by my MP-110, all leaving my 2M Black far behind, since that shibata only sounds good (superb actually) with records in great shape — and depending on the recording, but regarding this I admit I couldn't find the perfect phono stage and gain setting for the 2M Black.

But the VM540ML has two things. One, it accentuates the higher frequencies, not too much for sure but enough to be noticed. This was measured by some reviewers, you can Google it, and my experience is the same. I don't think it is a huge problem, but I dislike it, could be flat. Second, it's simply not exciting. It tracks perfectly and plays what seems to be a correct presentation, although with pronounced high frequencies, but it's kind of cold if you know what I mean. I felt like I was using a mediocre phono stage, which I was not. Soundstage was not deep. Very good channel separation but no depth and no "oompf", shy and pale bass and mid range.

The MP-500 solves both problems. It seems to have a perfectly balanced and flat frequency response. Warmer records sound warm, brighter records sound bright, but so far I found no one playing aggressively bright with the MP-500.

More importantly, and probably related to this, it plays with a lot of energy, fun and impact, giving an exciting and tridimensional presentation, with great dynamics and transients, and a lot of detail without artificial trebble boost. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned robustness without losing delicacy and detail, and I think this is an exact description. It's my favorite cartridge.

 

After one more week I'm back to the stock headshell and flat VTA. I'm done setting this thing up since a few days ago. I'm not listening to the cartridge anymore, just the amazing music that flows through it from the grooves. An amazing cartridge for sure. Expensive unfortunately but it worth it.

 

Question for Jelloalien. Do the stylii for the "new" Nagaoka cartridges fit the "old" Nagaoka bodies?

Eg MP20 body with MP200 stylus???

 

I can answer that: Yes

 

Thanks! I currently am listening to an MP50 stylus (of indeterminate age) in an MP20 body, mounted in a Rega RB300 (1980's vintage) on a Thorens TD160 (1970's vintage). It sounds so good that I am contemplating buying either a MP300 or MP500 stylus (which will probably cost me more than the arm & turntable cost!)

 

Nice to see you posting again, Needlestein. I miss you over at AK.

 

Sorry, just saw this, but needlestein's answered it anywho

I have the same combo as you. MP50 on the stock TD160 arm. Love it!

I too am contemplating the exact same thing.... But since both styli are pricey (and since my current stylus still sounds good even though I think it's up there in hours maybe), I've not jumped at a new jnp300 or 500 just yet.... Soon likely, or I switch carts, but the nagaoka is so good It's hard to want to leave

 

I have 5 hours on a new MP-500. Not that impressed so far - sounds a bit tight and clinical, (although very detailed) and is somewhat fatiguing to listen to. Snares and cymbals are very sharp and “in your face”; female voices a bit shrill. Soundstage not that open. Limited bass. Hard work!
(I’m coming off a Goldring 1042 which I love.)
VTF at 1.57g (~mid manufacturers recommendation). Tracking is excellent.
Will the Nag 500 open up and calm down a bit? I’d like it to be a little less fatiguing...

 

Your post surprises me. My MP-500 never sounded anything like that. It sounded perfect from hour one and didn't change much since. I've been using it for almost one year now and I didn't notice any drastic change. It have always been smooth, great bass, detailed but not analytical an not fatiguing at all.,

I suspect you might have an issue elsewhere. Too much gain in the phono stage? Misalignment? Mismatch with your tonearm? Or perhaps a defective cartridge?

Maybe try more VTF in the first few weeks. Try 1.8g. Could work.

 

Thanks @4011021. Phono stage gain is fixed for MM / MI. That’s not this issue - it’s fine.
The arm is a unipivot (NAS Ace Space) supposed to be really good but it is light. Heavy mass TT. Should work together well.
I took my time with the set up so confident in that. Think I will increase VTF to say 1.7g.
I was hoping perhaps the cart would soften up a bit - mellow out a tad, with more play, if you know what I mean.
Early days I guess.

 

I am really surprised you are not liking the MP-500 with the Ace Space. Last time I communicated with Nottingham, I was told they use Nagaoka carts in the factory (not sure which model). I have been using the Lyra Delos with my Ace Spacedeck for a year and a half now, and I love the combo. However, at the rate I play records, I am not sure I want to pay $2K every 2-3 years, so am looking at the MP-500 as a replacement when the time comes.

 

I’m well into my second serious listening session now with VTF increased to 1.7g, and I feel it might be mellowing a little. It may be my choice of music, but I’m feeling better about it than last night. Fingers crossed...

 

OK. So that VTF increase has made a difference. I’m starting to get excited
Feeling so much better about it than last night. It seems to have lost its clinical, harsh edge.

 

Sounds encouraging, hope for you it will get even better ...

Have a Linn Axis bought in 1988 with an Linn Akito II tonearm. Had the combo recently rejuvenated at a special turntable repair shop. Do you think the Nagaoka MP-500 would be a good match?