Dynavector 20X2H on Pioneer Plx 1000

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Nov 7, 2016.

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  1. Airbus

    Airbus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Beirut - Lebanon
    Hi All,
    I have just spent a 1000$ on a brand new DV-20X2H mc. cartridge to replace my 3 months old Shure
    M97xe mm. that I was not really satisfied with it´s sound qualities.
    I am planning to install the Dynavector on my back up deck, another 3 months old Pioneer Plx 1000.
    Is there anything wrong with doing this? in other words, did anybody else used a state of the art cartridge on a standard TT? Would the Pioneer be considered a mere transport in such a case or is the arm and the standard pioneer arm wiring degrade the performance of the DY ?
    Option two, would be to save the Dynavector for my main deck, a Project Xtension 9 and use it´s Ortofon
    Quintet black on the Pioneer?
    Your advise is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Lymbo

    Lymbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    I've listened to several cartridges on my PLX-1000. My favorite so far is one of the least expensive I've listened to extensively. The Denon DL-103r. I'm loving this cartridge.
     
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  3. FashionBoy

    FashionBoy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Appreciate your take — I recall you have a Hana as well, sorry for the OT but are you preferring the 103 to the Hana?

     
  4. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing this. As long as the specs of the tonearm dictate that you can use a specific cartridge you'll be good.
     
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  5. Lymbo

    Lymbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    I prefer the 103r on the PLX.
     
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  6. FJosh

    FJosh Forum Resident

    I use a 20x2H on a mass market Yamaha PX-3 linear tracking TT, sounds great to me. :righton:
     
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  7. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I've been using a 20X for more than a decade on my VPI and through a rebuild by Soundsmith, speaker changes, amp changes and preamp changes it still sounds great to me.

    IMHO you made a great choice and many reviewers will agree with you. Enjoy
     
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  8. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    One can spend 100,000 bucks on a turntable that does the same thing as a 100 buck table....spins records at a certain speed and transmits a signal to your phono preamp. Buy what you feel comfortable with and enjoy.
     
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  9. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Two questions:
    1) The 103 is a fairly low-compliance cart, needing a medium to heavy tonearm, is the Pioneer's arm heavy enough, have you maybe swapped the headshell for a heavier one? I'm thinking of the same combo, so your experience would be very helpful;

    2) I've read on Zu Audio' website (they mod and resell 103's, the notable "Zu Denon") that the "R" version offers extended highs over the standard 103. To me it sounds suspiciously like it may just be a bit bright. Have you found that to be true? Have you heard the regular 103 to make the comparison?
     
  10. I'm new to this forum and a new PLX-1000 owner. I sent in my old ATOC/9 MC for retipping and they are sending me a new OC/9II to replace. The OC/9 sounded quite fine with the exception of a bit of sibilance on the very high end. Especially when there was a lot going on in the groves. I took it into Needle Doctor and a great young fellow looked at it under a microscope into his computer and we could see the stylus tip was deformed abit and there was wear & unevenness on the right side of the diamond. Emailed AT about retipping and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse for the new OC/9II (which arives tomorrow. I have Audio Quest Vipers RCA cables running from my PLX-1000 into a new Van Alstine Vision Q Phono Pre AQ Cobras running into my Adcom GFP-750 running AQ balanced Vipers into my GFA-5208 amp into KEF reference 3.2s all from the early 2000s. Love the sound. My questions: I've read on these and other forums tha some people say the proper over hang on the PLX-1000 is 54mm as the owner's manula states. Some take issue and say it should be 52mm like the Technics SL1200, whose tonearm has the same dimensions. Is it 54mm or 52mm? I just got a new Jelco HS-20 headshell to mount the OC/9II on, (better shell material, & wires than OEM and has azimuth adjust too). I also purchased a Ortophon Cartridge protractor. Baerwald I think. I have my brand new/old Adcom Crosscoil HOMC HPII in the OEM headshell right now which I set up using the (rather bogus & inexact) 54mm template in the PLX-100owner's. Using the protractor my second null point is way off. Any advice? Finally I read that all of these alignment models were devised in the 30s or 40s and were based on old tonearm technologies, and aren't suitable for today's better arms & cartridges. Is that true? Just trying to get the best sound I can. BTW I'm replacing my 1983 AR The Turntable, and the PLX-1000 sound quite better. Thank you for any input and advice.
     
  11. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    First - for clarity - overhang is not 52 mm or 54 mm. Those are shortcuts to overhang, by measurement on the head shell. Overhang is the distance the stylus hangs past the spindle, in this case 15 mm for the manufacturer's specs and probably around 17 or 18 mm for Baerwald.

    I've seen comments made online that the Technics measurement of 52 mm applies, but I've never seen reason to believe the manufacturer is wrong. It could be just assumptions based on looks. The Pioneer tonearm without the head shell might be 2 mm shorter than the Technics, thus requiring 2 mm more distance in the head shell to reach the same effective length.

    Regarding the Baerwald protractor - It is inaccurate to check one alignment scheme with another. The overhang and offset angle for a Baerwald are different from the manufacturer's specified alignment. Both should align perfectly at two points on the record, but the two points would be different for Baerwald than for the specified alignment. If you want to try a protractor rather than the manufacturer's method, print a Stevenson protractor from vinylengine.com. I think an accurate Baerwald alignment might wind up at around 56 mm, but Stevenson could be within 1 mm or so of the manufacturer's overhang.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  12. Thank you Bob. I understand what you are saying. Here's what happened just today.

    I got my brand new AT OC/9II from AT & Fed EX. I immediately mounted it on my brand new Jelco HS-20 headshell. I set it up with a Technics 52mm and was about to use the Ortophon Baerwald protractor, but needed to rebalance the arm and new headshell/cartridge, which proved too heavy for the standard PLX-1000 counterweight alone. No problem I thought, just get out that little sub weight and balance the arm.

    The PLX-1000 owner's manual shows it easily threading clockwise in . Not only wouldn't it thread clockwise, it wouldn't thread at all. It just turned, hopelessly useless, without ever gripping a thread no matter how I tried. My lovely wife, an artist and woodcarver, has much steadier hands and fingers than I. I asked her to give it a spin... No go. Looked at the back of the arm and there seemed to be something out of whack where the tread hole was.

    I delayed action on my first thought "more force," and called Pioneer DJ support. After waiting on hold for 40+ minutes while being told every 30 seconds or so about "experiencing a huge volume of calls" and being told my wait time was approximately 15 minutes, for 15 minutes, and then 1o minutes, for another 15 minutes, and then 5 minutes, for 10 minutes, I got a human being. BTW PIONEER the audio on your hold is horrifyingly bad, constantly clipping. Not too reassuring I fear.

    Anyway I told my kind fellow my problem, and he gave me the unspoken perhaps you don't know what your doing and you didn't unwrap the weight properly and something immediately got jammed in there. Or perhaps the dealer sold you a recycled peice that some other idiot screwed up. I told my helper that I sold HiFi in retail for the better part of 40 year including setting up thousands of turntables. I also told him having unpacked oodles of brand new gear in brand new packaging, I could assure him that my PLX-100o was brand new, unopened & unrecycled.

    He told me he was an owner of the PLX-1000 and knew about the counter weight. He said that the arm must have a QC issue, and that I should send it back to the dealer for an exchange. I hung up, knowing nothing I didn't already know, except next time I probably won't call.

    Called my dealer and relayed my sad story, and was reassured that they would take back my miscreant PLX-1000 (paying for the shipping) for either a full refund or a replacement. But unfortunately they were out of stock and the soonest they "might hope to have new replacements" was after June 28th. But going by history they probably wouldn't be there until some undiscernable date after. He emailed me a UPS return label and told me to decide whether I wanted a refund or replacement before I shipped it out.

    Well I immediately looked into the alternatives: fix my 33 year old, speed weary even with a brand new belt, AR The Turntable, to the tune of perhaps between $500-$1200, buy a new Rega, Music Hall, Project, or Clearaudio, or GEM Dandy all for between $1000-$2500, or call Guitar Center (8 miles away by car) and see if they had a brand new unopened PLX-1000 (yes) and if they would match my great, delivered to my door, price (nobody's biz but mine, MF's & GC's). He came within $20 and I'd get 12 months interest free instead of 6 months too boot. I asked if we could open it and try to fit the sub weight at the store he said yes.

    I arrived, we opened the box, fit the sub weight (which is a bit difficult even for a guy who is a DJ and owns two PLX-1000s), I bought the thing, came home and replaced my old PLX for the new PLX, unopening & reusing things like the counter weight, mat,headshell, cables, etc. Finally I rebalanced my new PLX-1000 arm with my new OC/9II & Jelco headshell set at 52mm (which, you are correct, was nowhere near fitting into the crosshairs on both null points on my protractor) and played The Pat Metheny Group's first, and quite luscious, LP. It sounded fine with the exception of a bit lethargic highs & bass. I then readjusted the overhang to the 54mm Pioneer recommends, and put it back on and all of a sudden life was back.

    I then noticed just a bit of harshness in the high end (cymbals etc.) so I reset my, month or so old, Van Alstine Vision Q (stunning piece for $500) from 30 ohms to 100 ohms. Tame highs with plenty of life & sparkle. I am tracking at 1.5 grams VTF and had the arm height dial at 1.5. Azimuth looks ok to both my wife & me. After playing PMG, I spun my boxed 40 year old Boulez Debussy collection. Afternoon of The Faun (perhaps the best 10 minutes of music ever written), Jeux, & La Mer. Boulez and his orchestra were in our living room. My wife, who has never believed she had audiophile ears, contrary to my 2 decades of entreaties, was blown away to also have a full orchestra, of conjoined yet separate musicians, playing in our house, said, "that sounds a lot better than the CD."

    The upshot: Tomorrow I will take my reboxed PLX-1000 to Polly's Coffee Cove for UPS to pick up, and enjoy a scone and a Diet Cola while she has her morning coffee. I will keep my new PLX-1000, my new AT OC/9II & Jelco HS-20, and my Van Alstine Vision Q and start welcoming some of my favorite musicians back into my living room. My search is over for now, it is time to stop deciding and just enjoy the music on the best (of many) system I've ever owned, and one of the best (of thousands) I've ever heard (& yes I know there are far better to be had, because I've sold them).

    BTW: The PLX-1000 isn't perfect, (then again neither is the AS Invictus, or Air Force 1, or Walker Black Diamond) but I can own it along with the home it, and we, are sitting in right now. (BTW 2) the PLX-1000 sounds great (no loose bearings) and my combo makes the music come alive. Pehaps my old Thorens TD-160c, my Technics SL-1100 with AT tonearm (yes they made SME competition 40 years ago), or my lateral tracking upright Mitsubishi LT-5V, or my HK top Belt Drive, or my AR TTT, would sound better brand new. Pretty certain the Technics/AT would, not so sure about the rest. And by God my new new OC/9II has only 2 hours on it and is still opening up before my ears, as is my Van Alstine.
    .
    And I know folks worship their old SL1200 DDs (a fine DD TT IMHO), and look down on anything else, especially these nasty cheap Chinese wan-a-bees. But I am content knowing right now I have the best set up I could afford (and a more than worthy challenger to anything in (or perhaps near) it's price range. And best of all I still have money left to pay for my car repairs, my dentist, my mortgage, my food, a real as opposed to alternative, charitable donation or two, and some fun with the love of my life, and a new 180 gram LP or two once and awhile.

    Right now I'm giddily rediscovering all of the LPs I haven't played in 25 or so years, but was smart enough to hold on to, because I felt (as a professional live musician myself; www.amyandadams.com) they always unleashed more life, then any CD player (even plugged into my Benchmark DAC1 USB) I ever owned or sold, including the Sony CDP-101 (ear drum sander), or Hi Rez Tidal streaming. No offense, digital has its, well earned, place in my home, cars, computers, PA, occasional high end audio sales pitches. I still fill in 15 - 20 days a year at Halsten Entertainment in Golden Valley, MN. http://halstenentertainment.com.
     
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  13. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    What's the effective mass of the PLX-1000 arm?
     
  14. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    Excellent question.
    I've emailed Pioneer about this, but they just repeated the same acceptable cartridge weight range (3.5 - 13 grams) information that's listed in the manual.
     
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  15. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Can't find this anywhere. Some say it's something between 10 and 12g but I suspect it's just a guess.
     
  16. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    I would imagine that with with the internal rubber damping, that it must be a little higher mass than the other Hanpin designs.
     
  17. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    And what would be the mass of these other Hanpin designs?

    Also I wonder if it would be correct to assume that the only difference between the PLX-1000's arm and other Hanpin that may affect effective mass is the rubber.

    EDIT: For whatever practical reasons like matching cartridges I believe it's safe to assume it's a medium mass at around 12g anyway:

    "A tonearm whose effective mass is rated between 11 and 25 grams is considered moderate mass" (Resonance frequency )
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  18. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    Same situation as the Pioneer, no effective mass measurements. Just guesses.

    Like you, I've seen the 10-12 gram estimates but have never seen any official numbers. I used do a web search from time to time, but never turned up anything new. A bit frustrating, but the deck plays nicely so I try to concentrate on that.
     
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  19. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Oh yes it plays nicely! I love it. It would be nice to have a feedback from the OP about the Dynavector.
     
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