Speaker Positioning - hitting that stereo sweet spot

Evening all. I have been tinkering with my speaker positioning of late and have recently got the speakers set up in such a way that if I lean forward on my sofa I feel like i'm really in that stereo sweet spot. Sounds fine when sat back also but that couple of feet nearer the speakers really brings the sound to life. Sounds crazy, maybe it's my ears. The easy answer is to move the sofa toward the speakers (or move the speakers closer) an equivalent distance but would rather not do that unless needed.

The question is then if I want to project that sweetspot a couple of feet further back into the room and keep it as wide as possible (sometimes up to 3 people on the sofa for a listening session) what are my options? Would more/less toe in help?


Some further info:
Speakers are currently just over 6ft apart with some toe in
Sat forward my head is approx 6 feet from the speakers
Sat back more like 8-9ft away (deep sofa!)
Speakers are 1ft in from side walls
Speakers are 2ft from rear walls

Speaker Harbeth 30.1

Thanks

 

First mark the front corners of each speaker with painters tape on the floor so you know where you started. Then try toeing them out a tiny bit and see if the sweet spot moves back. You may need to widen their placement a little as well. If it doesn't sound better you know where to go back to.

 

I wouldn't use toe in for this purpose. I'd move them closer and then toe in until vocal is lifesize and not too wide. No further

 

Room size ? Forgive me for seeming like the good conduct monitor, but didn't you see the exhortations from our esteemed host to fill in your gear profile?

As your asking for advice to maximise your listening quality, don't you think that you might get better advice if you gave the assembled multitudes a few clues?

 

Personally Id prefer to be 7-8 feet away

 

I find if I lean forward from my seating position, my head is moved more into the tweeter area (height) so perhaps they are just a few inches too high for your position.

 

When you move your head forward it sounds better that just maybe due to being further from the sofa back that is deadening the sound. With your head forward you are in free space and the sofa is not having an effect on the sound that is going directly into your ears.

 

Interesting - I never thought of it in that way.

 

This is definitely part of the equation unless it's a low back sofa.

 

It's a great shout but my sofa does have a low back and is about 2.5ft from the back wall so this hasn't been an area of focus so far. Interestingly its pure luck I bought a low back sofa.

Thanks for the responses so far - appreciated. In terms of a bit more info and update:

room dimensions approx 16th by 9ft (speakers firing down the length of room)
It is a dedicated room for music listening, floors carpeted
Tweeter height is 84.5cm, I would say sat back my ear height is approx 90cm

I'v adjusted the speakers to approx 28cm in from side walls so just under a foot
Speakers are 3ft from back wall (toe in 96cm from back wall outer edge, 93cm inner edge)
Speakers are approx 6.5 ft apart
Speakers are approx 7.5 ft from my listening position

Effectively I've brought the speakers closer to me and that has had the effect of improving the sense of stereo sound when sat back in the chair - the speakers to my eye look quite close but I think I need to get used to it. Also think whilst getting closer something isn't quite sitting right with the imaging but hopefully we are fine tuning now. Played around a lot with this last night but got a bit tired of it so will take another look tonight.

 

I have original positions marked as per this - good shout thanks!

 

This guy has some interesting methods

 

To continue with the sofa theme, a leather sofa is usually more reflective then a fabric one.

Moving your head forward not only moves you away from the sofa but changes your ear angle in relation to the speakers. So does moving your head up or down or bending it forward or backwards from the neck. And putting hands behind your ears or bending your ears forward. Even when you think you've got good sound in a normal position, doing these things often improves it further which is very frustrating!

Apart from speaker and chair positioning - I use this concept:

Setting up your monitoring environment

raising or lowering the speakers, leaning them forward or backwards, as well as varying the toe in, can change the sound.

Harbeth have a forum that might offer advice on this:

Harbeth User Group - Harbeth: For 40 years - the world's most natural sounding loudspeakers

 

I am sure what the criteria is for a low back sofa is in terms of height, but when seated on the sofa, you are sitting in an absorbing medium. The sound that is reaching you is being absorbed, maybe not right at your ears but every where else around you. As you move your body further out of the sofa you move further into a "free" area in which your body is now out of the sofa and all that absorption. I bet if you move the sofa up to that spot were you are leaning you will have the same listening condition as you did further back and if you leaned forward again you would have the same hearing sensation.

 

you may like the sound better when you lean forwrad because you are lowering your ear level in the process.
how high off the floor are the tweeters?
how high from the floor is your ear level?

 

As already stated by the OP:

“Tweeter height is 84.5cm, I would say sat back my ear height is approx 90cm”

 

According to the measurements I read, your ears should be below the tweeter and not above as in your situation. Don't ask me why but it has been noted in tests that a 'suckout' occurs when sitting above.

I'd also move the speakers even closer to your couch and get a true equilateral triangle and use toe in to adjust the center image which is what I do and I get a wall of sound - almost literally. Of course it also depends on your speaker's dispersion ability and the integration of the drivers so the speaker sounds as a whole and not separate drivers.

When you have guests toe them out but nothing will help everyone to have the sweet spot.

I've been playing on and off with speaker placement for almost 2 years to see what more I can get from my speakers and after all the trials and errors I finally dialed it in.

YMMV

 

So many different ways of approaching this and everything is truly relevant! Between Spkr positioning and listener positioning it can be a chore to get 'just right'. Just cupping yr hands behind yr ears will yield surprising results! Been at this for 30+ yrs and, y'all gonna laugh, my newly acquired wheelchair has been a revelation! Got it a few yrs back and thankfully, don't really need it. It's actually oversized and kinda comfy. It's pertinent to this dialogue due to the different sound presentations it allows me, I can go near-field to long-field within the course of a single tune!

 

Plenty to get stuck into above, thanks for the help. Interesting point about cupping my ears, a marked improvement?! What is that telling me?


Interestingly my sofa is leather, it had crossed my mind that won't help reflections, not sure how big an issue that is? Best I could do is get a 'throw' to cover it but would rather not.

 

You could experiment by throwing a blanket or duvet over the sofa just to hear what happens.

For cupping ears see my post 34 here:

Improve frequency response of ear

 

Just for fun try a few things. Do these in single steps so you quantify the effect of the change.
Leave sofa in current position:
Put things under the cushions to raise seat height, remove cushion to lower seat height.
Cover the sofa with a few blankets to dampen the sound reflections from the sofa surfaces.
Place pillows, or other sound damping things, behind the seated position to dampen reflections from the back wall.

Find a single chair, box, milk crate, bucket or other small seat that places your head at the same level as the sofa. The smaller the better.
A taller bucket cut down to the correct height is easy and cheap to source. Stack multiple buckets for easy gains in height.
Remove the sofa from the room and use the single seat to find a sweet spot as the room is currently set up.
This will remove anything the sofa is doing to the sound so you will realize how the sofa is effecting the sound in your room.

The overall things you are dealing with involve EVERYTHING in the room. There is some complex math and physics involved as well.
If you are not going to alter the room to deal with any of the potential issues then speaker placement and seating placement are pretty much the only things you can change.
Play with those to hear how they effect the sound in your room and decide what you will end up with.

 

My first reflection panels are 2 ft x 4 ft and I set them up when I use them. A few times I place one behind me on the rear wall, 9 ft away. The sound seems to come from in front of me more and I enjoy the sound more also. So maybe moving ahead has to do with moving away from the rear wall.

 

I adjusted the toe-in on my OM-102 monitors the other night and the difference was significant... in fact, it was literally a Paradigm shift....

 

I'd move the speakers much further from the rear walls if you can; and also a bit further from side walls

 

I'm experimenting with zero toe in. Speakers pointing straight to the wall behind me. I think it sounds less congested in the center of the soundstage in some more demanding records. It seems like I have more detail too. I'm liking it.