Tom Petty/Heartbreakers: 2018 Thread

I loved when Stan Lynch was the drummer. I felt they did their best music with him. He had charisma and his "sound" was more to my liking when I listen to the songs. I think they should have kept Lynch. Nothing against Ferrone, but the sound just wasn't there when he played drums.

 

Same. In fact, my least favorite track by far on that record is "Don't Come Around Here No More". It doesn't fit at all.

 

I've said this before, it bears repeating: Ferronne is a real pro, and versatile as all get out. But Stan had hunger, drive, and energy.

 

Stan was the good kind of sloppy as a drummer, but unfortunately he made himself expendable.

 

"It's Hard To Find A Friend" (Tom Petty & Stan Lynch)


The Stan Lynch/Steve Ferrone debate is one that forever seems to keep coming up among Heartbreakers fans and at this point I'm not naive enough to assume that any retelling of the facts or events that lead to Lynch's sacking/quitting the group will amount to a hill a beans worth a difference but it's a topic I've wanted to broach for awhile anyhow so here goes:

The very fact that Lynch's departure from the group maintains somewhat of an ambiguous nature to this day, is indicative as to how convoluted the situation likely was. Was Lynch fired? Or did he all but quit the band prior to his golden handshake/phone conversation with Tony Dimitriades in the fall of 1994? To begin with anyone even attempting to make sense of this subject matter, should pick themselves up a copy of Warren Zanes' "Petty: The Biography". While it doesn't unlock all of the answers, it at least throws some light down the path.

That said, I think the most important aspect in understanding the switch from Stan Lynch to Steve Ferrone is the following quote from Tom Petty to Peter Bogdanovich in "Runnin' Down A Dream": "I didn't want to play with him (Lynch), it had got to the point where the music didn't sound right to me and I told him so. I told him, I just don't think you have the right feel for this music and he was very upset and I understand why."

If that seems like an oversimplification of the issue at hand, it was at it's essence an issue that was a long time coming. The one constant that all parties seem to agree upon was that Stan Lynch was a fantastic live drummer and an essential part of that aspect of the performing career of Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. Where the mixed reviews tend to crop up is in discussing Lynch's ability or inability to translate his work on-stage to the studio. Now whether this had more to due with Lynch's technical prowess as a drummer or his unwillingness to commit to the process of making records is where the line truly begins to blur. It seems that the performances that were needed from Lynch in order to facilitate great Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers records were always within his reach, but it took a hell of a lot of work to get them out of him. "In the studio it could be quite difficult with Stan..." Petty told Paul Zollo in "Conversations With Tom Petty" in 2005 "...because he really wasn't a studio drummer, and he didn't like the idea of sometimes being cut back to just playing time and so, just like kids do, we had our arguments in the studio and we'd work real hard and sometimes I think we worked harder than we had to get a rhythm track because Stan would just be really difficult." So this would inevitably result in Lynch leaving the group for a period of time or Lynch being fired from the group for a period of time, always to be brought back into the fold by Petty time and time again. Benmont Tench has always taken up for Lynch in the sense that every time they brought in a new drummer to fill the void, the band didn't sound the same. As he told Bill Flanagan in 1995 "Stanley left and came back several times over the years, Stan was like "That's it, I'm out of here, I quit!" or else it would be, "Stanley get out of here" and he'd be back and then he'd be gone and then back and we'd never get anything done without him."

There also seemed to be a whole lot of gamesmanship going on as well. As detailed in Zanes' "Petty: The Biography", the relationship between Petty and Lynch had always had it's tempestuous qualities: "I didn't agree with the way Stan felt about a lot of things, with his take on life. I knew that behind my back, he was trying to undo me. And that meant undoing the band.". So it should of little surprise that as the decade of the nineteen eighties wound to a close, Petty began to put some distance between himself and his drummer. "Full Moon Fever" would be Petty's first solo album and while the circumstances surrounding the genesis of that record, might be described as a "happy accident", one fact cannot be ignored and that is when the record was issued in the spring of 1989, Stan Lynch was the only Heartbreaker not to find his name amongst the credits.

"I don't think it's what Stan wanted..." explained Tony Dimitriades to Peter Bogdanovich "...he wanted to be an all out rock and roll band. Tom was writing some mellower songs, then Stan had to perform those songs on the road if he wanted to stay in the Heartbreakers and it's like, I think he used the term "I feel like I'm in a cover band"" Lynch concurs telling Bill Flanagan in 1995 "I was always at odds with the pop sensibility of the group. I wasn't a big Beatles fan, I liked them but I didn't grow up thinking "I want to be in The Beatles." I listened to Who's Next, I wanted to do "Honky Tonk Woman" by The Rolling Stones. To me, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers were Eric Burdon and The Animals. I would have never predicted Dave Stewart and Jeff Lynne. I had a whole other fantasy."

To his credit, it appears that Petty sensed the tension, not only with Lynch but with Tench and Howie Epstein as well, neither of whom were entirely enamored with the idea of the solo record. To that end the "Strange Behavior" tour of 1989 marked the first time that the Heartbreakers were given solo spotlights during the course of the show, enabling them to display their individual chops to the audience. Stan Lynch was even given a vocal spotlight during each concert, perhaps a trade off for playing ball on the "Full Moon Fever" material. Compromises aside, one could argue that Stan Lynch had outgrown The Heartbreakers as much as The Heartbreakers had outgrown him. Lynch had signed a publishing contract with Warner/Chappell in the early eighties and by the end of the decade had begun to demonstrate his abilities as a composer working with Don Henley on "The End Of Innocence", the success of which fueled both his confidence and ambition as an artist. As Petty stated to Tabitha Soren in 1995 "More than anyone else, Stanley felt constricted by his role in the Heartbreakers" making reference to that fact that by the time the nineties rolled around there just wasn't enough of a creative outlet for Stan Lynch as the drummer in Tom Petty's band. "I was being asked to play less and less rather than growing." Lynch admitted to Bill Flanagan in 1995 "I wanted to be wild. I wanted to be Keith Moon by "Even The Losers". I wanted to be a great classic rock and roll drummer, to the point of being abandoned, freaky. And it became more restrictive, more of a pop, classic rock, record band." Stan Lynch was invited to perform as the drummer of record on 1991's "Into The Great Wide Open" forming part of the core group along with Petty, Campbell and Lynne that would see that album to completion. However, that being said Lynch would nonetheless find himself stymied at the prospect of having to play along to parts programmed on a drum machine.

The Heartbreakers would convene again over the summer of 1992, attempting to lay down tracks for a new album. "We had a great time jamming around and working with song fragments and ideas." explained Petty to Bill Flanagan in 1995 "Then when it came time to start putting down some tracks, it completely fell apart. If we weren't thinking at all, we could do things easily, but as soon as we wanted to do it it became impossible. Hence my decision, I had to walk away from the band again. Though really I just walked away from Stan, I suppose. Which he took rather personally and I don't blame him."

So instead of continuing on with The Heartbreakers, Petty instead embarked on what was to become a two year odyssey, a labor of love which resulted in what most fans regard as the most finely wrought music in his catalog: "Wildflowers". "Mike Campbell and I were always really interested in the craft of recording." explained Petty to Peter Bogdanovich "Stan's point of view of recording was you do it just like you do it on stage, you just capture that. We thought no, there's more to it than that. We want to create some textures, we want to get into using the studio as an instrument. He didn't fit into that world." For his part, Stan Lynch seems to concur telling Warren Zanes "The musical component wore itself out. Tom wanted to go somewhere that I was incapable of going. It wasn't even a question if I wanted to." In this lies the contrast between Lynch and his eventual successor. Steve Ferrone with years worth of experience as a session drummer, was immediately able to lock into what Petty and company were reaching for with "Wildflowers". The demands of the studio, the will and commitment it takes to go in for take after take and then come back the next day and do it all again from the top. "I'm not a session player... " explains Lynch "...It's sort of like hell I did what I could do. I took that ride as far as it would go. I mean the seventies were great, the eighties were great, the nineties were tough." So the band soldiered on without Lynch through the "Wildflowers" sessions with Petty later telling Zanes "We normally leave the studio at 10 p.m., but we'd stay until twelve or one in the morning, just because Rick Rubin was pushing us and pushing us to do more and more and to keep writing."

"Stanley had been really unhappy because we'd been making a record without him." Tench would later recall to Zanes "And I can understand why. If everybody's on a record but you?" For his part, Lynch did little to disguise his ambivalence about the project, in particular the album's hit single "You Don't Know How It Feels". "If you listen to the whole record it's very elegant." Lynch explained to Flanagan in 1995 "But speaking just as a drummer, could you put me in any more of a plow harness?" The trappings that one falls into in assessing the relationship between Petty and Lynch will without fail reveal itself when one tries to assign blame for the breakdown of that relationship. It's a situation where there are no protagonists nor antagonists, it's just one of those things that went down the way that it did. To Petty's credit, regardless of their issues, he kept trying to keep Lynch in the fold until the very end, reaching out to him prior to the "Dogs With Wings" tour of 1995 asking him to put their differences aside and forge ahead with the tour. He would later explain to Zanes that he informed the drummer that he needed him for the tour and the offer was there should Lynch choose to accept it. But to Lynch's credit it's also equally understandable why he didn't exactly leap at the offer. Whether it was too much water under the bridge, the fact that he wasn't a fan of the material he was being asked to play onstage or the notion that the band had outgrown him (and he it), the showdown after the Bridge School Benefit in early October of 1994 can only be seen as inevitable with Lynch's unhappiness cropping up as he described The Heartbreakers as "not my main gig" to other artists on the bill. As the song says, it was time to move on as it had become patently clear that the band could not continue on with Lynch manning the kit. In 1995, Petty explained the situation in the wake of Stan Lynch's departure as thus to Bill Flanagan: "Stan's a very talented guy and has that double plus of being a really nice guy, but we're happy too. Things have worked out for the both of us. It really hurt us deeply when he left, but it wasn't going to go any further." Lynch would subsequently chime in with the following: "For me, the whole Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers experience was so incredibly rich. Out of a thousand dollars, there was a nickel's worth of downside. What a life! Tons of dough, tons of women, tons of adulation, tons of miles that you'd never get to see without this. Enough experience for twenty lifetimes and at a time in your life when you're strong enough to take it. And it couldn't have happened to me without those particular players. Great characters to have been on stage with a couple of thousand times. Great guys to jump around with, funny as ****, wackiest of the wacky. They don't get any crazier than those assholes. They're wonderful."

 

Ferrone's resume is impeccable, and obviously he's a consummate professional. But he's...too professional. Like when Mick Jagger drafted Simon Phillips (one of my favorite drummers) for his solo tour, and it was awful. Stan Lynch and Charlie Watts were cut from the same cloth, in a way...grooving, behind-the-beat type drummers whose feel provided an often overlooked, but never duplicated feel to their respective bands. I don't mind Steve on the stuff he recorded in the studio with Petty, but when he plays old Heartbreakers songs it just feels off to me. I also just feel he was far too heavy handed for the gig. Obviously Tom disagrees, which is why he kept him on for 20+ years. I've read plenty about Lynch, and I don't blame Petty for the decision, I just personally don't feel his replacement truly fit when they played songs recorded with Stan.

 

I agree. It wasn’t TP & the Heartbreakers to me without Stan Lynch. He was a big part of the feel. But Tom didn’t want that feel anymore. He had moved on.

 

Ferrone was perfect for Wildflowers imo the greatest Petty album.

 

It's a shame because on Hypnotic Eye they were doing songs that Stan would have been perfect for, and he would have enjoyed.

 

Sigh...

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion about Tom Petty’s drummers, so I’ll give my own: the endless soap-opera handwringing around the fetishization of Stan Lynch and the creepy Yoko-ization of Steve Ferrone is the most tedious aspect of hardcore Petty fandom. They’re both great drummers, and pegging Stan as a brilliant rock saint vs. Ferrone as a limited studio automaton is a ridiculous (and at times slightly sinister) exercise in stereotyping IMO. And ultimately a weird form of disrespecting Tom Petty’s rock-and-roll taste, which was uncompromising and perfect. He loved having Ferrone at his back for 25 years.

 

I think both drummers were very good, but preferred Stan Lynch cause I thought the music sounded better. I read the Zanes biography and I think Petty liked Stan's drumming and appreciated his talent. I think the change in drummers was that Tom had a personality conflict for many years with Stan and finally had enough of it. He indicated he didn't trust Stan and knew for a long time he was trying to undermine him behind his back. I feel Stan might have said some hurtful things about Tom that got back to Tom. Petty indicated he should have addressed the problem years earlier, but was too young an didn't know how to handle it. I think it probably put a lot of pressure on Tom to have to keep that band together all those decades with all the squabbles that was going on and Petty being the frontman and "leader" had to keep everything from going off the rails. I think it was a relief for Petty to branch out on his own with Traveling Wilburys and then his own solo album without having the pressure of all the problems with Heartbreakers. He enjoyed being with the Wilburys cause he wasn't the "leader" and was amongst other legends and icons that he felt were even bigger than himself. Problem was, he didn't notify some of his band of what he was doing and it didn't sit right with Stan Lynch who looked for other work and said the Heartbreakers "weren't his primary gig" as he went out to audition for other bands....and said this near a window where Petty overheard the comment and he got incensed and said that was all for Stan......so I think Petty loved the work Lynch did with him, but I think it was more of a personality conflict that cause Lynch's departure.

 

Word!

 

That was a revelation, hearing Tom singing that one. Very cool. Playback. The gift that keeps on giving!

 

Thanks for posting that.

I think Stan and Tom grew apart. In the early years, Stan fit the band well with the songs Tom was writing. As time went on, Tom was writing music that didn't fit the way Stan was good at drumming.

Stan didn't want to do a simple beat like a drum machine. I can get that. Tom wanted the drumming a certain way, Stan wouldn't do it, so they fought and he left. Steve was willing to do what Tom wanted, exactly.

Tom didn't need a Keith Moon anymore, like he did in the early years. I think the band benefited from Stan, but the HB were Tom's baby, so he got to make the call.

 

There was apparently a live album compiled from the Let Me Up... tour, but never released. It does circulate in the trader's dens, so to speak. That's where I first heard Runaway Trains and just really loved it! I guess the live version is a bit more organic than the album...

Petty had some great singles over the years, no doubt. But I'll always think of him as an album artist. It's not about the singles, the albums are where it's at. I don't have Greatest Hits, and have no desire to have it. I got Playback for the rarities....

 

Playback is a wondrous collection, it really is.
And to me, the term "singles artist" refers to an artist whose albums generally consist of a couple or three worthy tracks that got released as singles, and then padded out by far inferior filler on the rest of the album. Before the dawn of the 21st century, Tom Petty never released an album with more than two or three poor songs on it. Just about every one of his albums has at least five or six excellent tracks on it--most of them have more.

 

Exactly.

 

Looks like Mike and Benmont (and many others) will be playing some Jerry Garcia tunes in LA on March 30th:


Tickets on sale NOW:

Jerry Garcia

 

I picked up She's The One for 2 dollars the other day. Good album and sounds great.... I had avoided it..because I really don't enjoy soundtracks,... but it seems le just a regular album with two short instrumental/incidental music track thrown in.

Nice guest too. Lindsey Buckingham, Carl Wilson and Ringo and George on the same track. good stuff.

 

I did mention that Full Moon Fever was an exception. Also, Long After Dark and Southern Accents both have exceptional songs on them, and even Let Me Up, I've Had Enough had its moments; but they're not solid albums IMO. And I'm a huge Petty fan. I have everything that's been officially released, including side projects, and some that hasn't been. But the '80's albums are, for me, the most inconsistent.

 

The studio version of "Runaway Trains" kind of pales in comparison to the live version. Very '80's production, including some horribly dated drum machines. Still a great song in any incarnation, though.

 

Happy Monday Pettyland. Here is all the news that's fit to print:

- As I mentioned in my last posting, Steve Ferrone gigged this past weekend in Palm Springs with The Kenneth Brian Band. The event was given some local media coverage and while on site, the CBS news affiliate asked Ferrone about Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers issues past and future. Ferrone explained that the loss of Tom Petty was devastating to both the band members and crew and they have been leaning on each other in order to get through this difficult time. Ferrone praised Petty's abilities as a band leader, stating that he was always quick on his feet when dealing with the media, detailing an occasion back when the band performed at the Superbowl in 2008 when Petty demonstrated his ability to put a reporter on ice when he was asked a question about politics that he was uncomfortable with ("You're going to ask a guitarist about politics?"). Ferrone also briefly touched upon the Autism Speaks event that will be taking place on April 21, 2018 which will see him performing alongside Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench as part of the house band backing up Stephen Stills. Ferrone also mentioned that Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers have around six or seven albums worth of unreleased material in the can and they are currently sorting out the details as to how to get that material out to the public. In particular he mentioned the "Wildflowers: All The Rest" project alongside a slew of live material that is still in the can from live recordings made during the 40th Anniversary tour to a collection of tracks recorded at the Fillmore West in 1997. The link to the article and video can be found here: Longtime drummer for Tom Petty shares experience with late frontman

- The Dirty Knobs (featuring Mike Campbell) have announced a performance to benefit The Elephant Crisis Fund which will take place on March 31, 2018 at the Soho Restaurant And Music Club in Santa Barbara, CA. Doors open at 6:30 with the show at 8 P.M. Ticket information can be found here: A special Fundraiser for The Elephant Crisis Fund: The Dirty Knobs featuring Mike Campbell, and John Kay (Of Steppenwolf) - Tickets - SOhO Restaurant and Music Club - Santa Barbara, CA - March 31st, 2018

- The "Our Town" publication out of Gainesville, Florida has a pretty nice write up on the legacy of Tom Petty which can be viewed online here: Our Town 2018 JAN-FEB (Gainesville)

- In other Gainesville news, plans for a Tom Petty memorial highway have been put on hold, as discussions are ongoing regarding the best way to honor the late musician: "Tom Petty Memorial Highway" put on hold

- Finally Keith Harden has shared another gem with us, this time his personal calendar from March of 1965 denoting the date of a school dance at The Howard Bishop School where The Sundowners featuring Tom Petty performed their first gig. According to Tom Petty, it was at a previous dance where Petty was approached by a young lady named Cindy Crawford (not that Cindy Crawford) whom he had a crush on and she was interesting in booking talent for an upcoming dance. The song that happened to be playing at the time was "The Game Of Love" by Wayne Fontana and The Mind Benders and when Crawford remarked that she loved that song, Petty bluffed and told her that his (non-existent) band performed that song as part of their set. According to Petty, her eyes immediately lit up as she proclaimed "You're In A Band?" So was the birth of The Sundowners and a whole lot of other stuff that would follow:

 

Whoa! Six or seven albums worth of unreleased material? Sweet!! I can’t wait to see what they have in the vaults.

Thanks for posting all this information McCool, makes it easy for us Petty fans to keep up on the goings on. Much appreciated!

 

No problem, glad to do it. I don't want to sound like I'm dousing the fire with water but it's important to remember that a lot of times when musicians (especially those from the classic era) refer to "albums" what they are really speaking of are the records themselves as in physical media. I don't have the exact number in front of me but didn't the vinyl edition of "The Live Anthology" have six or seven records when all was said and done?

That being said, obviously there is a lot to draw from in terms of catalog when it comes to Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, should the band choose to go down that route and Ferrone's comments seem to indicate that at the very least they are leaning in that direction. So I think now would be as good of an opportunity as any to expound on this topic a bit and also continue the discussion that walrus brought up on the previous page regarding how some of this material might be parceled out in the future.

- I'm going to leave "Wildflowers All The Rest" out of my end of the discussion for now at least. The reason being is that it is my understanding that the project is already finished, mixed and ready to go and is just being held in dry dock until the moratorium on Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers releases passes. The same by the way probably goes for the vinyl box sets "The Complete Studio Album Collection Volumes 1 & 2". From what I understand from reading the threads on the SHF, they have apparently gone out of print. My guess is that they will also see another printing as soon as the high sign is given for production to begin again.

- One project that I would feel very comfortable making book on as far as getting out to the fans at some point in the future would be the twelve or thirteen tracks all taken from the 2017 40th Anniversary Tour that are currently spinning in regular rotation on SiriusXM's "Tom Petty Radio". This may have been the live album that Ferrone alluded to in his interview, I'm really not sure. But either way it would make either a fabulous Record Store Day release at some point as "Kiss My Amps Volume 3" or potentially a tie in with a DVD/Blu-Ray feature on the tour as well as from what I understand, there were several gigs this past summer where the cameras were rolling. One interesting question pertaining to this is that in recent years, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers had been using their "Highway Companions Club" to parcel out exclusive live material to their fanbase. Well the main purpose of the "Highway Companions Club" was to allow fans first grab at ticket opportunities and with Petty's passing, it will be interesting to see if the fan club continues on in any form going forward.

- In my humble opinion, one thing that truly needs to be addressed is a DVD/Blu-Ray release of 1992's "Take The Highway Live!" concert which was given release on VHS/LD back in the day. It's easily one of the best visual representations of the Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers live experience and it was one of the rare concerts films that in my opinion was shot with a great deal of care and taste. It's one of those items that if it isn't on the dockets, well it probably should be. FWIW I don't ever see a Blu-Ray/DVD release of "Pack Up The Plantation" being feasible.

- The Fillmore West project that Ferrone mentioned is extremely intriguing to me because it's something that Petty spoke about quite a bit in the past about wanting to explore further. I know that there used to be a matrix available on the internet that detailed all of the songs performed over the twenty nights they played at that venue in 1997 and I believe it came out to something around ninety songs, most of them a virtual cornucopia of the band's roots running through a variety of different styles and influences. I know that the last show that they broadcast over Westwood One ended up having something like three separate encores or an encore that lasted nearly an hour or something like that. Anyhow, they went back two years later in 1999 and did another nine or ten shows at the Fillmore West, so taken together that would be around thirty shows from which to draw from which is pretty intriguing stuff to say the least. The one issue that also comes to mind and I know that this was touched upon a bit earlier and that is the lack of representation on "The Live Anthology" of shows dating from the eighties. Well if you examine the liner notes for "The Live Anthology", you'll notice that most of the material from the eighties that was included on that package were taken from performances that were either previously accessed for "Pack Up The Plantation" or were Westwood One broadcasts in eighties. I mean even the show from the Spectrum in 1980 which was accessed despite never being broadcast on Westwood One subsequently turned up on Wolfgang's Vault alongside a handful of shows which were Westwood One broadcasts back in the eighties. So I wonder if it's just a case that there really wasn't that much extant material available in terms of professionally recorded concerts from the eighties when compared to what was available from the nineties and beyond?

The are obviously a handful of other projects I'd like to see at some point down the line but I'll leave it there for now.

 

I would love to see "Take the Highway" concert on Blu Ray or DVD....I loved that concert. I think Tom Petty looks the hottest in that concert and was on top of his game....loved the bandana he wore.

I think anything released from the vaults would be too sad to even listen to..at least to me. While I love the other members of the Heartbreakers, without Tom Petty, it's never gonna be the same. I just choose to remember the decades worth of music he made. I think it all ended when Tom passed away. I recall reading that Tom had even said if someone in the band was sick or died, the whole thing would be over. In some regards, perhaps that't the best way to respect Tom....and his wishes. But I can see the other members wanting to still play music - but the shining star when Tom was there has now faded and will never be the same.