So I bought an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge.....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Johnny Vinyl, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Senior Member

    Location:
    London,England
    Have not been there personally but Hi-Fi World would say go with a Rega tonearm or one of the upgraded derivatives, then a Goldring 1042 or one of the Ortofon range.
     
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  2. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Well, I had my my
    Friends Project. RPM 7 with carbon arm and..... 2MBlack here a few years ago to set up.
    That cartridge was sweet from word go
    Smooth detailed and quiet in the grooves. Not fussy on loading.
    Good tracking!
    You will love it .
     
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  3. Spsesq

    Spsesq Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I posted back in April after I had the cartridge for a month. Now I have had my 2M Black since March. I had it first installed on my ProJect Debut Carbon Esprit. Since then a couple of major things have changed so I want to update my post ( now 4 months down the line) with many more hours on the cartridge.

    2M Black cartridge update:

    1) I upgraded my turntable and amplifier in May. I now run the 2M Black on a VPI Prime Scout and an upgraded Cronus Magnum to a Magnum II. The sound difference between the two component combinations is like night and day. I noticed increased detail back in my April post with the cartridge right out of the box. However, now with the improved turntable and upgraded amplifier as well as the "break in" period, the sound is absolutely amazing. The turntable upgrade speaks for itself but the most important aspect of the the amplifier upgrade was a 6db of gain in the phono stage. Now with 45db of gain, the power to run the Black to its fullest is now available to me. That 6 db of gain increase directly affects what I am hearing and what the stylus is pulling out of the groove. The result is more detail and clarity from the music I thought I knew every nuance of by listening for the last 30 years. VERY IMPORTANT:'Make sure your amplifier or phono stage pushes at least 44-45 db in gain to fully exploit the powers of the Black.

    2) I added a TTWeight Carbon Fiber mat to the turntable. It added about 3-4 mm plus an album so I had to adjust the VTA. VERY IMPORTANT: get your VTA/SRA and Azimuth set correctly so the cartridge tracks perfectly. You can use instruments and software to do this but I did it by hand and by ear. I fine tuned it by ear and found the 2M Black sounds best, fullest sound and widest sound stage with a slight downward angle and perfect azimuth adjusted. Also, the manual calls for 1.4-1.7 g tracking force. I found 1.5 to be perfect with the azimuth and VTA settings on my VPI. Take your time and do this right. Your patience will be rewarded!

    3) Is this a great cartridge? Yes. Is it perfect? No, nothing is. There is always a trade off. This cartridge picks up everything, I mean everything in the groove. I have found that records must be throughly cleaned before playing. Every pop and click is accentuated, even on the higher end VPI. You will hear details you were not aware of. For example, the non musical sounds and effects in Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon pop out at you, especially in good headphones (I have Grado RS1e's). Vocals, male or female are outstanding with the Black. Listen to Dylan, Billie Holiday and you will hear fantastic details. The stylus does an outstanding job of separating instruments in jazz or classical. It even reveals hidden sounds. In my George Szell conducted Schubert "Unfinished Symphony" the 2M Black reveals musicians dropping things and moving chairs in quiet parts. Your soundstage will be expanded and that you will hear the effect of that immediately.

    4) Because of the detail this cartridge picks up, older worn albums and poorly recorded, poorly pressed and poorly mixed records reveal thier deficiencies in a big way. Do not get discouraged or think the cartridge is at fault...it is not it is the recording or the album itself. I have had to replace a fair number of my favorite albums from my high school and college years because of abuse from former inferior equipment, former inferior friends and crazy college parties. All those skips, scratches and surface noises are very apparent on these old records. I have replaced some albums with excellent Japanese pressings and with new or "newer" well reviewed reissues. On these excellent pressings, the 2M Black excels! Pay attention to reviews on pressings, I started doing this and so far haven't wasted money on crappy pressing that will no doubt disappoint when exposed to this cartridge.

    Bottom line, this is one of THE best MM cartridges you can get, especially for the price. I am very happy with it now that it is finely tuned and I fully understand it's pros and cons and can prepare for it. The 2M Black is like a fine sports car, fail to tune it up properly and give it crappy gas and it simply won't perform. That's not the fault of the car, it's the fault of the owner...same with your 2m Black.

    Best of luck with your 2M Black and your setup!

    Steve
     
  4. smartiepants

    smartiepants Senior Member

    thanks, rather than hijack this thread i will start another
     
  5. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    Well, this one hasn't seen much action in months, so hardly a hijack...just sayin'...
     
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  6. smartiepants

    smartiepants Senior Member

    LOL new thread already started & getting as much attention (early days yet though as it is mid day Sunday here so a little quiet) :D
     
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  7. AmericanHIFI

    AmericanHIFI Long live analog (and current digital).

    Location:
    California
    I know that this is a relatively aging thread, but this is exactly what I've experienced using the 2 Black's I currently use. Furthermore, if any of the known aspects of alignment are slightly off, you will hear it and the entire sonic picture hanging together will became disparate. Still, very much worth going through the trouble and keeping on top of maintenance.
    There are MC carts I've heard and used that did not perform as brilliantly as this one.
    Deviating slightly, I found (oddly) that the Quintet Black (the upmarket choice), sporting a Shibata (on boron or safirre cantilever) is easier to get singing right. It doesn't make any sense to me. I've tried it on various tonearms, from Rega RB303/330 to VPI JWM 9 memorial, to the top Project Carbon, and LINN Akito. It may have to do with less sensibility due to its medium compliance spec, versus high compliance of 2M. Bill @ Uptown Audio (KT 88), would you care to chime in?
     
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  8. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    I have had a 2m black on my Clearaudio performance DC turntable for 8 months as well and I love it.....the only downside is that it presents the true condition of your vinyl but I would rather have the accuracy over a cart and stylus that smooths things over
     
  9. AmericanHIFI

    AmericanHIFI Long live analog (and current digital).

    Location:
    California
    Congratulations! I still have one.....
    Just be very diligent at aligning it with a worthy quality protractor (Dennesen, Feickert Analogue, etc). Pay close attention to azimuth alignment too, as it's one of the most sensitive carts that I've come across at that. A slight degree of tail down VTA adjustment and you're done. It takes a long time to break-in, about 50 hours initially, and about 100 to sound its best IMO and experience. It likes to track exactly around 1.5 grams, as Ortofon recommends. Ultimately, of you'll be disappointed with what the Shibata stylus presents, you can always go down a notch to the Bronze (nude fine line). Shibata just digs deeper in the information relm but also requires more flawless vinyl to work with, IME.
    Good luck, happy listening, and keep us posted!
     
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  10. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    Pretty significant surface noise...the only negative I have
     
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  11. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Surface noise was a deal killer for me so I sold it pretty fast to a forum member. But a lot of people love it so just give it a try!
     
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  12. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    You are here
    I just keep my records clean and have little if any surface noise issues!

    Just had the Black put onto a P1 while I wait the Michell Gryro being modded. Still no surface noise! Clean records and clean stylus works a treat.
     
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  13. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    The problem is that surface noise isn't always about cleanliness! It can be scratches, vinyl defects poorly pressed vinyl , etc. There's something about the cut of the 2M Black stylus combined with its cantilever and overall design that seems to accentuate any kind of surface issues be it dirt or scratches, vinyl defects, overly hot treble pressings, etc. By comparison the AT Shibata is very quiet in the groove, and the AT microlines, which are a more advanced stylus profile, are much quieter Ditto the Jico SAS and even the Denon special ellipticals. I also have an OM40, and while it's not quite as quiet as those i just mentioned it's still not nearly as bad for noise as the 2M Black (and it's a much better tracker). If I were someone about to go with a 2M, the Bronze gives about 95% of the sound you get with the Black but without the noise plus it tracks sibilants better when properly set up. It's also much cheaper!
     
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  14. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    You are here
    The cut of the 2M Black takes the stylus deeper into the groove. Surface noise will be by default more of an issue for elliptical shaped stylus I would have thought.
    I fail to see the point about overly hot pressings and a link to this stylus??

    I can tell you from a few years experience with this cart' that if you keep it clean and the records clean there is NO problems with noise.
    How it may or may not compare to other cuts is hugely debatable of course. I heard it against a Delos many times and the Delos wins by a mile. Different type of stylus of course and more expensive cart'.

    Like I say, the 2M Black is sitting on a P1 right now [temporary fix for me while my Gyro is modded] and the records are new that I have played, cleaned new records with a clean stylus [even the dealer commented on how clean it was when it was examined] and it is fine. So if issue are present about surface noise with the use of this cart' then maybe looking at other reasons as to why may be the way to go as it certainly is not an issue inherent with this cart' if maintained.
     
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  15. Gasman1003

    Gasman1003 Forum Diplomat.

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    I must agree, I have not noticed any untoward surface noise issues with the 2M Black.
     
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  16. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    You are here
    You must keep the records and stylus clean then :)

    There are no issues with this cart / stylus and SURFACE NOISE! I got / get more surface noise from my Orofon Blue, not even a close context but the Blue is elliptical and a far cheaper cartridge over all.
    If there is more than anticipated noise with the Black then it is solely down to a lack of cleaning of either / or [or even both] the record and stylus.

    I have been running one of these for a number of years on a techno arm on a gyro.
    Correctly set up with a cleaning regime that should apply to any record / stylus then there are no issues to speak about.
    In comparison to other carts/ stylus, well that's an entirely different topic. I can list plenty that either out perform it and also list plenty it out performs.
     
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  17. alx7

    alx7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    I have a new M2 Black stylus replacement on the way from Amazon.ca
    Way cheaper than buying state side.
     
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  18. alx7

    alx7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    Set up M2 Black this afternoon. Playing Rush Hemispheres right now. EPIC:uhhuh:
    Original Canada vinyl...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    honestabe316 likes this.
  19. MusicNBeer

    MusicNBeer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I'll bet it sounds great. That is a really nice recording.
     
  20. alx7

    alx7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    Can't get enough of this album when sounds like this:righton:
     
  21. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    The pre-Signals RUSH just cant be criticized in my book......
     
  22. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay

    i went from the 2m black to a soundsmith carmen mk II

    not even close...the black seemed quite harsh compared to what is coming out of my speakers these days...
     
  23. alx7

    alx7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    Interesting. My m2 black is mounted on an older Rega P3 with a Rega pre amp plugged into an Audigy2 platinum sound card powering 5.1 Monsoon speakers in a 10x10 carpeted concrete floor cave with computer running XP. Cartridge aligned and tone arm weighted at 1.5 g.
    The cart I replaced years ago was a clearaudio aurum beta. It was great for all those years. But a time came to replace it. I could have traded for a new re-built for 60% of the cost but I chose the m2 black stylus replacement.
    It sound so good right now with a fresh stylus out of the box. I do like the bass cranked with the Monsoons.
    One thing though, these have to kept clean with the low profile collecting junk right down to the bottom of the grooves it doesn't take long to stack up on not so clean records. Always playing ultra clean records keeps the cleaning maintenance to a minimum sound enjoyment to maximum. Ortfon recommends not using a cleaning formula but only a dry brushing which I intend to follow this time around.
    Listening to the 2018 RSD Piper at the gates of dawn mono edition right now. Incredible sounding record...
     
    Echoes Myron likes this.
  24. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    When people say that the 2m Black is very sensitive to vta/sra they are not kidding!
    Recently, I installed my old 2m Black on my 1200G and I was able to experiment with the vta on the fly.
    What I observed was that even with minimun changes on the vta wheel the sound could change from harsh and clinical to nice and smooth.
    Vta also affected the surface noise.

    What a strange cartridge! I believe that when set up correctly is one of the best cartridges in the market regardless of price. If not set up corectly it can sound terrible though.
     
    G B Kuipers, Spsesq, alx7 and 2 others like this.
  25. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Try a dry Magic Eraser. Will keep the stylus clean as a whistle.
     
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