Audio Technica AT150mlx cart discontinued-replacement stylus?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by MikeyVan, Jun 14, 2016.

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  1. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    The least expensive metals in the world to buy are steel and aluminum. Steel cannot be used for a cantilever because it is magnetic. There are thousands of steel and aluminum alloys, that vary in price, so even they can get somewhat expensive, but Boron is a very exotic material. It is a LOT more expensive than the common aluminum alloys that would be used for a cantilever. Now, on a per cantilever basis, the quantity of boron or aluminum is so small that the unit cost difference isn't much. But if Audio Technica can buy tons of aluminum, and make millions of cantilevers from it, that again is a lot cheaper than them buying a little bit of boron for some special cantilever that they don't actually sell many of anymore.

    Then there is the cost of special tooling required to form and cut boron, that is not required for aluminum. And the cost of maintenance of these special tools, that wear-out and break more often than tools for aluminum. And the greater time required for skilled workers to work with boron, compared to the VERY easy to work with aluminum. And the gold plating material and chemicals; and those manufacturing processes, that AT used on the boron cantilevers. So, yes, there was a very big cost savings for Audio Technica to discontinue any involvement with boron.

    This is the reason that Beryllium cantilevers have already disappeared, and boron cantilevers are in the process of disappearing. If audiophile cartridges were a big seller, then it would be more worth-it to continue investing in making them. But as less-and-less quantity are made, each one gets much more expensive to make and for us to buy, until finally, big suppliers like Namiki just don't want to bother anymore. This is the way of many types of products in the world. Mass market items, and very large quantities, reward big manufacturers more than small special items that require artisans rather than automated factory equipment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Heckto35 and 808_state like this.
  2. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    And there lies the rub, as there isn't one. The closest comparable in the new range is more expensive and with poorer spec. :(
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  3. octavius

    octavius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    I have AT440Mlb more than year. Recently I bought the new stylus ATN150SA and installed it on my AT440 body. It sounds great I think. Three's slislightly difference between MLB and SA stylus.
     
  4. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    I have a deal on an used AT150MLX cartridge with an unused AT150SA stylus still in the box. Should I get it? If I do, will I have a replacement stylus in the future?
     
  5. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    There will always be replacement styli for it, to fit it, from $20.00 aftermarket to A-T originals. But apparently no more superior boron cantilevers with the 150 number are made. Any current A-T VM/VNM aluminum cantilever stylus of the 500 and 700 series will fit it directly, and those will be made for several years, hopefully.
     
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  6. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I suggest you get it while you can. And continue to enjoy that cartridge for many years... unless you have thought about moving to moving coil cartridges someday.
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  7. Denti

    Denti Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Has anyone tried the VMN40ML Microline on an AT150MLX body? How does it compare to the ATN150SA (which is still available through a number of dealers)?
     
    Hermetech Mastering likes this.
  8. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    Great explanation, thank you Warren!

    Either way it's a d*mn shame.
     
  9. octavius

    octavius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    Yes you folks who want to intend buy ATN150SA stylus buy it asap for good price. I bought my for 200 euro and after 3 days price jump up for 500euro on ebay
     
  10. dartira

    dartira rise and shine like a far out superstar

    I’d like to know as well.
     
  11. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I waited one day and the price jumped to $300 at lpgear. Looks like I will be trying the 440 with 150 body now.
     
  12. Denti

    Denti Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    $184 now. But you scared me, so I jumped on it.
     
  13. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    You’re right. I bet I was looking at the full cartridge price. My bad, but perhaps I should go ahead and order too.
     
  14. octavius

    octavius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    $300 is good price when you compare it with Ebay price :) I bought it from this seller Audio Technica VMN60SLC Replacement Stylus for AT760SLC Cartridge | eBay but my stylus was brand new. I paid two weeks ago €205 now it is more than twice...
    I have this stylus on AT440 body. What I did read over the forums experiences are very positive to have ATN150SA stylus on AT440 body due to similar inductance. The worse situation is insert 150MLX stylus into the AT440body...
     
  15. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I have placed an ad in the Classified Ads forum, for a GROUP BUY of replacement Boron/MicroRidge cantilever/stylus.

    If you want to finalize an order with me, for one or more of these Boron/MicroRidge cantilever/stylus, from Namiki, I am ready to place the order. Please make your payment to me.

    As shown in the ad, they are $95 each, and my Paypal is [email protected]. If you want to pay by Bank Wire Transfer, let me know. If you are located outside the USA, then we will arrange another payment to cover shipping after I receive the package from Japan.
     
  16. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    A bit more info would be nice. Do they come with the stylus housing, or is it literally just the cantilever and stylus? And if it comes with the stylus housing, will they fit current AT carts? And why Micro Ridge and not Micro Line? etc.
     
  17. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I do have OEM Audio Technica ATN150MLX replacement stylus assemblies. In fact I have more than I will ever use. They sell for about $400 now on the internet, and they will continue to go up. The good thing about them, of course, is that they just plug into the cartridge, and you are done.

    But, I have opted to get more serious about these Namiki cantilever and stylus, because I can use them with ANY cartridge. They are ONLY a cantilever and stylus; no housing. So to fit onto ANY cartridge, they need to be sent to a cartridge repairman, along with the cartridge to be repaired. That will cost $100 to $150 through Roman in Russia, but probably more like $300 to $400 to a cartridge repairman (like Andy Kim) here in the USA. An original OEM AT replacement stylus, or a Namiki stylus sent to Roman and attached to the AT stylus/housing assembly, will perform exactly alike: life expectancy, sound, mass, VTA and SRA, etc. I know this because
    I know that Roman is an expert with the AT150MLX cartridge.

    Why MicroRidge instead of MicroLine is ONLY because "MicroLine" is a proprietary tradename registered to Audio Technica. MicroRidge is a generic stylus shape name, not registered to any one company. It is very similar to MicroLine, but generally considered to be slightly better. MicroRidge has a narrower shape near the tip (where it rides in the record groove), it keeps its EXACT tip shape better that the MicroLine as it wears, and it has lower tip mass than MicroLine.

    You can do a Google search for MicroLine and MicroRidge, then look at microscopic images of each. You will see they are very close to the same, but the MicroRidge appears to be of higher precision.
     
  18. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    Thanks Warren. Definitely something to bear in mind. I have the 150MLX with the original stylus, had it about 3 years now, and I have ONLY ONE unused replacement 150MLX stylus, so I'm hopefully good for another 5 years or so, but when that time comes I'll definitely be looking for a replacement.
     
  19. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    Not trying to derail this thread but has anyone looked into the "C-1000" carbon cantilevers that Zyx is now offering with their more expensive carts? Is this something that Namiki makes or is it a different OEM altogether?
     
  20. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    This is what AT claims the current like-for-like replacement for the ATN150MLX stylus is... I had an unfortunate mishap that broke my 150MLX (they are VERY fragile, which is their one downside), so I'm running this exact setup because it was all that was available if I wanted to be up and running again. It's fine, seems ok. The only real difference is between the aluminum and boron cantilever, which isn't insignificant, but it's livable vs. having nothing.

    EDIT: No idea with respect to the SA stylus, as Iv'e never heard that in my system. It was between the 150SA and the 40ML, and I went with the Microline because I was so happy with the 150MLX.
     
    Hermetech Mastering likes this.
  21. Francois

    Francois Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Anyone else think the 300 to 500 hrs lifetime of the new serie is a bit low, especially for the price?
     
    ThePoodleBites likes this.
  22. ThePoodleBites

    ThePoodleBites Forum Blogger

    I think that the quality in general is a bit low for the price.
     
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  23. Francois

    Francois Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Truth.. Disapointed, I really liked the old AT cartridges...
     
  24. octavius

    octavius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    I think 300-500 hours is worst scenario from AT engineers... If are you using cleaned records + clean stylus it must exceed +1000 hours
    My stylus AT440MLb has more that 1000 hours on it and still sounds great. I use only cleaned records for this stylus. For fresh records which I bought from flea market I use MP-110 for sure :)
     
  25. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    So figured I would chime back in.....for what it's worth, here is my very remedial assessment...

    I just recently purchased a VM740ML. My previous cart/stylus was the AT 440Mlb.

    My current rig:

    Pro-Ject Xtension 9
    Yamaha AS-501
    MoFi Studio Phono
    Elac B6 Debut

    I have a 12x12 room so not large by any stretch.

    Going forward the AT440Mlb will go on an LP-120 that I have in basement room. I loved the AT440Mlb, never got to hear the AT440MLa or the AT150Mlx so cant compare to the two of those.

    The VM740ML has more separation in sound and has a richer sound. Just punches a little harder than the AT440MLb. The biggest difference is the separation of sound. There is something about hearing the horns , piano and bass on a good Jazz LP all playing in a separate air of sorts. All easily identifiable within the song with their own definition. Considering you can set VTF at 2.20 this may have something to do with it, along with the solid cart base in place of plastic.

    Now, this said, I am not sure it would be the liveliest of cart/stylus combos. I need a bit more time with it to determine and let it break in.

    My neighbor likes the Ortofon line because it is what he started with. He likes the VM740 ML on my system, but says he is not sure how he feels about the refinement of Micro-line stylus'. I feel like they are a taste like many other things that you either like it or don't. For the record he did not like the AT440Mlb and he thinks the VM740ML sounds leagues better. I would not go this far, but there is a noticeable difference and it wont be leaving my table any time soon.
     
    Francois likes this.
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