Record Grading Question

I used to sell LPs to Dusty Groove and also on eBay. I also grade very conservatively. I have sold many VG+ and VG albums and never received a single complaint.

 

What is this "mint minus" stuff all of a sudden??

If it has been played or hasn't been kept absolutely perfect after opening, it's NM or less.

Hairline scratches but nothing more and plays with minimal to no noise and with no groove damage, VG+.

Honestly it's the lower gradings I have the toughest time differentiating between. I graded an ugly looking record as "Fair" with plenty of scratches, but it played without any groove distortion/damage though it had a ton of clicks and pops throughout - though they weren't loud enough to destroy the music yet they were distracting. Maybe that's closer to "Good", I dunno.

 

"Good" is not good.

 

Which of course is why some of us are real sticklers about the sound versus visual. I appreciate all that you are bringing to the discussion; very informative, and I can agree with almost everything. But I must stress that the play grade should be everything, because we don't watch records play, we listen to them.

You know, it's what's inside that counts…

 

What do you mean all of the sudden? Mint minus is been around for a long time; it just means near mint, practically speaking.

 

I've honestly never seen that, at least not to my recollection, in record grading until recently.

 

Oh, ok. I've been going to the Better Records site for many years, and it's the way records are graded there.

 

Does anyone here think, or has ever thought, that there may be a market for a 3rd party lp grading service? Especially for rare and highly collectible records. If there was such a service, how would/could it work? Obviously you can't encapsule the lp....

 

There is 'visual grading' and there is 'play grading'. Most sellers post the former. You can always ask if the seller if he has done the latter.

If there are literally only scuffs (rubbing, essentially), no scratches, and a few spindle marks at the most, then a NM or NM- might be appropriate. Anything more and a lesser grade would be warranted.

 

You mean like the reputable autograph and other collectibles authentication industry?

I bought a 45 once from the supposed Beatle records authority, Perry Cox. Horribly over-graded.

But I’ve got a certificate from that says a 45 with handwriting on the label is NM condition, so I’ve got that going for me...

So...no, I don’t think it’s a viable idea.

 

It works fine for comics, collectible cards, etc. but it's only worth the reputation of the company that issues it. I think the key would be building that rep, which would be difficult.

It would be easier for an established company. For example, Elderly Instruments provides these for instruments (particularly vintage and rare guitars). It's not too cheap (about $100 if I recall) but if you are selling a costly instrument on ebay it can definitely help your odds of getting an appropriate bid or offer. It worked really well the time I used it, and I got about $3k for the instrument which was actually a little above the appraised value. But there again, Elderly has an excellent reputation already and they are known for accurately describing vintage instruments.

 

I don't know about comics, but as far as I know there is a lot of huckster-ism in the collectible cards market - even among "reputable" authenticators.

I'm not sure vintage musical instruments are a good analog to vintage records. The very low end of vintage instruments is the very high end of vintage records (with a few exceptions). Most vintage records are worth less than $25. The value of 99th percentile - in true NM- condition - very well might be <$100. Where would the money be for an "established" company in certifying records?

 

Exactly. The service would be relatively expensive especially if it involved play grading (which it should). We are probably talking records worth hundreds minimum. My guess is that the market is just too small to support something like that. But it COULD be done and done well if the market grew enough etc.

Oh ... and I don't know the first thing about cards but I do (think I) know grading is done successfully in multiple other collectibles markets.

 

Yeah, I usually refer to them as pressing streaks. I didn't know it was this that caused it.

 

Sorry, I lost track of this thread shortly after posting. What I was looking for were good words to describe that not cooled long enough blotch that happens when they shove it in a sleeve to soon. Yes, sometimes it leaves milky white lines but other times it is an ugly blotch. It is really hard to describe an ugly blotch when it does not affect playback. It turns potential buyers off and lowers the value of the record without justification. I just can't leave it out of the description of a record so I was looking for the best words to describe it.

 

Well, when I think about a 3rd party grading service this is what I think of....expensive collectible records. Here is the difference, to me at least, between a PSA 9 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, a #1 Spiderman Marvel comic, a mint state 65 Walking Liberty coin, and a NM RL Promo Led Zeppelin II in shrink. The record you can USE, the other things, sure there is a enjoyment but you can only gaze upon it through its plastic slab. The record lives and breathes, so from a investment stand point there is the conundrum. Here is what I mean, say there is a 3rd party grading service and they grade with a strict standardized set of guidelines. The grade is visually and sonically and 3 people are part of the grading process of the one album and then they must agree on the final visual and playgrade. Next the lp is assigned a grade and certified and placed in a thick vacuum sealed mylar bag with a holographic seal. The seller of the album is in a win situation here, with the buyer paying a even higher premium for the Led Zep II promo in shrink graded by the service as a NM/NM/NM (cover/record/play), but the buyer ruins his investment by breaking the seal and playing the record. This is why I cannot see it working. I think the market is there, just not gonna work from a buyer's/collector's side.

 

True. The grade would have to be recertified if the record was opened by the buyer. So it would only work for super expensive records ... the kind you would pay an extra $60-$100 JUST to know you could trust the grading.

 

Am I allowed to link a ebay seller's completed listings to further acknowledge that the market is indeed there?

 

I don't know. Can we page a Gort? I don't know who is in charge of the Marketplace Forum.

 

Well, until then I will say he has sold over $40,000 worth of records in the past 2 to 3 months and he hasnt had a high volume of listings. May actually be over $40,000 as my tally was rushed.

 

To have 3 people doing it I would think it would be a bare minimum $150 service with additional shipping, probably more like $200? Since it would be 40-45 minutes of each person's time for the play grade. Then the time encapsulating it in the case.

Also would they create their own grading system or use Goldmine? If they created their own, how would buyers know what it meant? It works in the other collectables market because they are very well established systems.

Also if a buyer cracks it open and isn't satisfied with the play grade (very likely given how different cartridges respond to surface noise/wear) what does the seller do? With Ebay the seller has no choice but to accept it back. No questions Ebay will side with the buyer.

Just throwing out some potential major problems and why it might deter sellers from using such a service.

Additionally on Ebay any dealer that is well known usually commands high prices since he has regular customers another factor that might mean this sort of service is of little interest to him.