SRA / VTA issues with Prime and Hana SL

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by mdelrossi, Mar 21, 2018.

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  1. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
    This is after I've lowered the VTA on the arm and adjusted the pivot cup a couple of turns. I have a bout 3-5mm left between the unit pivot and the arm base.
    FYI I have a 3mm shim/weight between the cart and the arm.

    Any suggestions?


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Seems like the magnification would need to be a lot more to pick out the rake angle of the cut. That's the shibata, right? Where are you set in the VTF range?
     
  3. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
    2.0 gm

    This is the arm angle
    [​IMG]
     
    rocnred likes this.
  4. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Great photo, what did you take it with?

    JG
     
  5. David A.

    David A. Forum Resident

    Location:
    san jose, CA
    punkmusick likes this.
  6. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    How old is the cartridge?
     
  7. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
  8. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    hard to find online what Hana suggests the VTA and SRA should be for optimal performance. Tonearm/cartridge head should be level with playing surface, SRA you might need to ask Hana directly.
    Or you can just go totally by ear, but depending on the SRA suggested that will give you the Hana house sound they voiced it for. If you don't like that then you can adjust to your ear.....But depending on the angle that could cause excess stylus and record wear......
     
  9. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    @mdelrossi I've had many cartridges that appear to ride too high (too high of SRA) until the suspension settles in after 50+ hours.
     
  10. mdelrossi

    mdelrossi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brooklyn nyc
    @Cliff , hadn’t thought about that. Time to sit back and spin some records.
    Thanks
     
  11. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
  12. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Take a good gander of that stylus angle when it’s sitting on a record instead of a bare platter.
     
    bluemooze and Strat-Mangler like this.
  13. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    What is the angle of the top of the cartridge? Rather than using the arm as a guide, you should start with the top of the cartridge parallel to the LP surface.

    John K.
     
  14. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I worry more about the top of my cartridge being level to the playing surface, rather than the tonearm, just depends. I use pencil lead and measure each end and make sure they are the same as I adjust the VTA. For my system, and what Lyra recommends, it works for me......

    [​IMG]
     
    bluemooze, avanti1960 and Jimi Floyd like this.
  15. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    A CD's thickness is actually very close the the thickness of a standard LP. A very good way to check the VTA.
     
    Pythonman likes this.
  16. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Ok I didn’t see it was on a cd. My bad. Funny thing I have the Hana SH on a Prime I have been running the arm too high on the pivot side by mistake lol. I was trying to eyeball parallel between arm and playing surface and thought I was doing pretty good since I had no noise or mistracking I could hear. Then I broke out a lined 3x5 index card and found I was away off lol. No harm done. I’ve only got a good 12-15hrs breaking in done so far. But man what a sound.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  17. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
  18. McGuy

    McGuy All Mc, all the time...

    Location:
    Chicago
    I have the VPI Prime Scout with the JMW tonearm - and considering the Hana SL as well. This is exactly why when I do make the plunge, I'm having music direct install it for me. I have no idea how to do it correctly.
     
    Pythonman likes this.
  19. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Use the advantage of on-the-fly VTA and adjust as you listen. Don't look at pics or care about what it should be. Trust your ears. Mine is running tail up and the rake angle is more pronounced than the 92 degree angle everybody seems to aim for. After doing that, the sound was dull and lifeless. That wasn't right so I proceeded to adjust the VTA while I was listening and the sound opened up more and more until I was too high and then it started thinning so I went back down until it was the perfect balance of an open sound with plenty of slam.

    Keep that in mind... and enjoy your new cart. :D
     
    Pythonman likes this.
  20. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks Stratmangler. About the only near to frustrating thing with table has been needing to recheck VTF when going more than a tad or two up or down with VTA adjustments. To that end I find it easier to use my trusty Shure SFG-2 than to break out the digital scale.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  21. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    A friendly word of advice. When they mount the cartridge ask them to use washers under the finger lift at the headshell and ask for longer screws. They will give them to you. After that ask them to not ship with counter weight installed as that’s how they come from VPI to protect the arm stub from getting damaged during shipping. Good luck.
     
  22. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Regarding info, Yosh pages are the best IMO, with respect to information. Here is the one about VTA/SRA:

    VTA
     
  23. Lenny

    Lenny Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    My $.02:
    Find a recording that people say is good for hearing the differences when you adjust SRA. Do a search here and elsewhere; there are a lot of suggestions out there. If you can't find one, take a record of a female singer and listen to it over and over 'till you know it very well. I have used Joni Mitchell's "Blue." Make sure it's something you like 'cause you'll be listening to it a lot.
    Set your tone arm to absolutely level and listen to the recording a few times.
    Read all you can about your cartridge and see if reviewers or users have a consensus suggesting tail up or down.
    Change the angle in that direction a very small amount and listen to the whole record. You are listening for the voice and instruments to "pop' making them more 3 dimensional. Do that again and again in very small increments. If you do not hear improvement soon go back and stay at level.
    If your reading does not come up with a tail up or down consensus. You may have to do this in both directions.
    Ditch the microscope. IMO it is of little use with any cartridge, but especially for those like yours with a sophisticated and non-symmetric shape
     
    bluemooze and Pythonman like this.
  24. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    With still less than 20 hrs on my Hana SH I can state she’s not showing any preferences one way or another yet, for VTA. By that I mean little difference at all can be heard changing the height up or down a smidge. But it’s a fantastically smooth tracker no matter where I have set VTA with zero tracking distortions and zero sibilance or IGD. None, nada. I would expect to be able to discern audible differences in VTA settings after a few more weeks of breaking in however. So for now I just have VTA zeroed with the arm dead nuts perpendicular to the playing surfaces. The Hana is good enough sounding that I’m doubtful the otherwise excellent Rega BrioR MM phono stage is letting me hear it all. So I will add a nicer separate phono stage not too far down the road while I consider other upgrades to the system.
     
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