Possible tonearm/cartridge problem

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by VictoryHighway, Mar 21, 2018.

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  1. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    All,
    I've got a weird problem with my turntable that hopefully this group can help me figure out. So, here goes. I have a Music Hall Ikura turntable that I bought about a year ago. Everything on it is stock, including the Ortofon 2M Blue cart. I'm connecting the 'table to the photo input on a Marantz 2215B receiver that my parents gave me.

    So, my problem occurs with records of orchestral music (but it doesn't happen on every record). Pop/rock music records never seem to exhibit the problem.

    The problem is that unless I set the counterweight close to the highest tracking force allowed by my cart (2.00 grams), I get no audio out of the left channel. Usually, with the tracking force set to 2gm, it works fine, but sometimes the left channel still randomly drops out during playback and usually restores later, again at a random time. I've tried adding the anti-skate weight, but that doesn't resolve the problem (it just changes the point on the record where this problem occurs). Without the anti-skate weight, the cutout occurs earlier on the side. Adding the anti-skate weight makes it happen closer to the end.

    This is what it looks like on the needle drop when this happens:

    [​IMG]

    I previously had the cart aligned by a Hi-Fi shop in the Boston, MA area (since I'm not really mechanically inclined). So, they must know what they're doing...

    Anyone have any ideas?

    Regards,
    Geoffrey
     
  2. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Have you actually measured the tracking force with a scale. If not, you may want to get a couple "tools of the trade", see the recent thread ... Cartridge alignment kit?

    Also, it's good to have a blank record on hand for a quick check of skating force at various positions across the playing surface. I'd recommend the excellent Melanie De Biasio Blackened Cities EP from a couple years ago, it's a 24-minute one-sided record, so blank on second side. Great music too, big favorite of mine (her No Deal record is excellent too, great sound quality as well, but it's got squiggles on both sides :)). Anyway, the usual course of action is just set the anti-skating so you get a slow drift toward the center on a blank record, that gets you in the ballpark.
     
  3. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    Yes, I do have a scale, and I have been using it to measure tracking force. I already have some single-sided records (though all have decorative etchings on them)? Are those acceptable to be used for this purpose, or does it have to be completely blank? I'll have to check my collection to see if I have any that are completely blank.
     
  4. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    OK, good. The record would need to be blank, no etching. If you balance the tonearm (tracking force at zero and no anti-skating applied) so it is floating (cue lever down), does it move freely when nudged vertically and horizontally in each direction? I can't see your image right now through my work firewall, but do you think the signal is dropping out due to electrical open circuit from wiring or cartridge issue, or is the stylus losing contact with the groove?
     
  5. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    I discoverd that I did have a single sided record that doesn't have an etching on the non-playing side. So, I will check the anti-skating.
     
  6. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Check the four lead wires at the cartridge to be sure they are plugged in securely. Sounds like a possible loose connection.
     
    richbdd01, Jimi Floyd and Jelloalien like this.
  7. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    Why would this affect some records, but not others?
     
  8. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Because a loose connection can be intermittent, the connection needs to be secure to be consistent.
     
  9. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    So, I checked my cartridge wires, and they seem to be secure. I also tried floating the tonearm to check the skating force. Without the anti-skate weight, the arm floats in place with no motion toward the center of the record. So, it doesn't look like I should need to use the anti-skating weight at all.
     
  10. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Either a cartridge connection issue or a faulty cartridge I would guess...
     
  11. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    So, I guess I'll schlep it over to the Hi-Fi shop to have them take a look at it. I will also bring a troublesome record.
     
  12. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    The skating force is a result of record groove friction and the overhang used in the tonearm geometry to lower the tracking error, so it is dynamic and will only occur when playing a record. I just wanted you to check that the tonearm moved freely in all directions while balanced and floating as part of the troubleshooting since the problem description is kind of confusing, but the shop should be able to figure it out. Good luck.
     
  13. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    The tonearm should preferably move inwards slowly. If its just still you dont know if its just slightly too much or way too much anti skating. I dont see how that would affect speakers completely cutting out though. Usually people who only play classical music tend to prefer slightly more anti skating than average and an allignment such as Stevenson to be more parallel with the grooves at the end of the record. This is because classical music tends to have crescendos where it builds up and gets really loud and intense towards the end. A climax if you will. This also applies to people who play singles.
    But this shouldnt be a problem for you and is not something I suggest if you play other genres too.
    I recommend a store look at it, as you are prepairing make happen.
     
  14. VictoryHighway

    VictoryHighway Use of goto is deprecated. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hopedale, MA
    Well, I figured I would post an update to the thread. I took my turntable up to the Hi-Fi shop today, and the guy at the shop told me that my arm and cart were set up properly. So, that's good! I brought one of my problematic records with me (the new Star Wars: The Last Jedi US pressing), and the guy hooked up my table to a demo system and we could not reproduce the problem. So, that seems to imply that either there is something going on with my system or there are gremlins. The guy at the shop suggested that I try different interconnect cables between my turntable and my receiver.

    So, when I got home from the shop, I reconnected my turntable to my receiver. Instead of using the same RCA cable I was using before, I swapped it out for a different cable I was using for a different purpose in my system. Once everything was up and running, I dialed in a tracking force of approximately 1.8 grams (middle of the range for the Ortofon 2M Blue cart) and added the anti-skating weight like how we tried it in the demo system at the shop.

    Now, the moment of truth. I played the problematic LP (at least the first disc of the set), and both sides played through without any dropouts! So, I'm guessing it was the interconnect cable, because gremlins are just plain unlikely.
     
  15. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Yeah, sounded like a connection issue. Keep us posted if it starts happening again though.
     
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