Turntable interconnect question(S)

Looking to get a decent set of interconnects for my VPI Prime. I have some older Monster Cable Interlink 250s and AR cables in the same price category that are shielded well and work. I recently bought AQ Golden Gate cables that maybe breathed more air and life from the lower mids on up but I keep having an intermittent signal loss in the left channel with 2 different sets of them. It could be a defect in 2 sets of cables in the same place which is unlikely or a bad connection to the Rega BrioR phonos left input, which I'll concede sounds more probable. Why I don't know. Either way I switch back to the Monster or AR interconnects and the problem is gone and I am unable to replicate the issue with them.

So looking at the higher cost of decent phono cables a question or two comes to mind. Right now I'm going straight into the MM input on the BrioR because I have a high output MC so I only need once set of cables right? So if I wanted to upgrade to a better outboard, stand alone phonostage I'm going to need another set of cables aren't I? Does the second set going from the phonostage to the preamps line input need to be as high quality as the cables going to the phonostage from the turntable? Or should the phonostage to the preamp have a higher quality cable or vice versa?
Thanks!

 

A good rule of thumb is to use the same quality of cables through the connection chain from turntable to outboard phono pre-amp and then to your amp. If you decide to go with an outboard phono pre, yes, you will need to use 2 prs of interconnects.

 

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Two things to consider, first is that RCA connectors are not always the same size. It is common that a plug can fit loosely on a jack, and you can have intermittent signal loss. Also add that the jacks and pins must be clean. Oxidation can develop.. easy fix is a little Meguiar's Ultimate compound with Q-Tip, and followup with isopropyl to remove the excess compound.. be sure there are no fibers or lint on the plugs/ jacks.. (use compressed air and/or tape to remove) Interconnect maintenance/cleanliness is a leading cause of problems. I do not recommend Deoxit on ANY electronics contact, pots, switches, cables as it is acidic.

I do not care how "hi tech" this product has become.. it's not good for the longevity of your equipment.

Secondly, I suggest every hifi enthusiast to invest in a VOM/ ohm meter, inexpensive ones are available at Walmart, or any auto parts dealer, Radio Shack if still in your area. (nothing fancy, just a $20.00 model is good) The VOM is a valuable tool for finding system and interconnect defects. Here is how to test the continuity of your cables, and for capacitance. For continuity, set the Ohm meter to "low ohms", connect the "+ lead" to one cable end, on the pin, and the "- lead" to the other end of the cable on the pin. You should get zero ohms. Bend the cable near the RCA plugs to simulate an intermittent problem. Repeat on the shield collars. Now for the capacitance leak test, simply connect the "+ lead" to the pin, and the "- lead" to the shield collar. Set the Ohm meter to high (k-ohms) A good reading is infinity ohms. Any reading in k-ohms or meg-ohms is bad.. it doesn't matter what the reading is, any reading indicates a defective cable.

The ohm test is easy, safe, and does not require an MIT degree in quantum light theory. It'll save you a lot of guesswork and headaches and money.

Steve VK

 

I've read in several places that the connection between the tonearm and the next stage of amplification requires specially designed cables. That makes a lot of sense since it is the weakest signal that you are transporting. Many manufacturers recommend a smaller gauge (21 - 24) conductor between the turntable and phonostage than between the phonostage (if external) and the line preamp. The smaller conductors are often silver or silver coated copper. If you look at the Morrow interconnect page, for example, Morrow says "This model cannot be used from turntable to phono preamp input. See our phono cables for that application."

My Experience? I bought a nice used turntable with a very pedestrian looking cable attached to the tonearm base via a 5 pin DIN plug. I bought a custom made cable of 22g silver coated POCC. It was a very nice improvement. Some time later I sold the turntable ,with the original cable, and replaced it with one that was Cardas wired from the headshell socket to the RCA socket with no DIN plug. I tried to move the custom cable to a system in my family room, but after snaking it through the holes in the wall unit, it came up a few inches short. I brought it with me to an Audiokarma meet in case anyone was interested in buying it. One fellow asked to try it between his Rogue Sphinx and his turntable. It was a huge difference, so much so that a few others camo over to ask what was done. When the first guy moved the cable to show them the left channel dropped out. One of the tiny wires had broken at some point. The moral of the story? They can be very fragile where the conductor meets the connector.

 

Thanks for the tip Steve. Funny you should mention listening at the beginning of the day as that's precisely what I did this morning, sans java even! I was re-listening to Henry Mancini's "The Blues And The Beat" , an RCA Living Stereo album, third track on side 2 trying to gauge the bass response and was making a cd burn of the first minute with the Audioquest cables connected and then with the AR cable I re-recorded the same portion of the same track so I could A/B compare on the CD and not have to keep switching cables back and forth. I could hear slightly more air and clarity perhaps with the Audioquest cables andwith the AR cables slightly better low end fullness and palpablility with a smoother yet not quite as crisply detailed upper midrange. It was tough but I thought there was more promise of overall satisfaction with the Audioquest cables after full burn in until I reconnected them into the system. Then the left channel was dead, as in gone. Maybe the cables fault maybe a mismatch in RCA jacks or whatever but I cant use them so the Monster Cables are back on and for now I'm happy but as the cartridge finishes breaking in I still may want to upgrade. Are the Monster Interlink 400s any better than the 250s?

Thanks for all the replies they've been quite helpful!

 

I listened at the beginning of the day for five years to find the perfect spot for my speaker stack to load my room.
Early in the day is when you hear the most before your ears become polluted by noise.
And I have decided that super low capacitance interconnects from the cartridge to the preamp will give you the most flexibility dialing in different carts for proper loading.
If the interconnects have too much treble loss (capacitance) and/or they peak the resonant frequency at the wrong spot (too low) the cart will suffer.
Starting off with super low capicitance gives you enough wiggle room to play around with the loading.
I use George L wire mostly but am open to Blue Jeans super low also.
IE you can always ADD capacitance but once it is too high you are screwed.

 

They always say it’s a matter of taste.
But well shielded always wins for phono to phono pre. Sometimes you have to pass on certain interconnects, because they simply do not work for turntable use. I use DH Labs Air Matrix instead of the DH Revelation. The Revelation have more detail and attack, but they hum. The Air matrix have a little less detail, but no hum. I love the sound of the music through the Revelation, but my head hates the hum.

I like silver from turntable to phono pre, and copper from phono pre to amp.
My theory is you get all of the detail from a short run of silver/silver plated copper. Then when your signal is boosted, the copper delivers an even sweep of lows to highs.

I will say, I ran the Monsters you have for a long time. I liked them. But if I had them paired with a Grado, I think I would reach for CD’s more often. I also like a little treble boost. Again, a matter of taste.

Have you tried using the right channel in place of the left with your AQ cables? I’m just thinking of basic troubleshooting.

 

I just replaced my Audioquest Red River interconnects with these.
IC8402-XX
In a shootout, the AQ cables played the part of Smoking Joe Frazier to the Beldens George Foreman. It wasnt pretty, and the Beldens are cheaper.

 

I was thinking I could have tried switching l/r on AQ cables to see if signal loss followed the switch but it didn’t matter because I returned them and told the dealer there might just be a mismatch with my amp but either way I couldn’t use them. I had planned to see if the AQ cable was holding up the bass or not which was why I A/B’d them with a cable I’m more familiar with. Had all gone well I would have continued using the AQs for the VPI or used them for my CD burner.

 

I recently won an eBay auction for Zu Audio’s Mission Phono interconnect that is constructed as a phono interconnect with low capacitance and with a separate earth ground wire. The cable is flexible and very well constructed with proper shielding. All said and done, I got a great 1m length cable for less than $40 including shipping. I love the low level detail, natural tonality, frequency response from top to bottom, and the large and deep soundstage with this cable.

Through a separate eBay auction, I acquired a Zu Mission MkI Power Cable with Wattgate connectors for less than $65. Because of my turntable’s design with little clearance for the Wattgate IEC connector, I had to replace it with a Schurter 4784.0100 right-angle IEC connector. The Mission MkI Power Cable is also flexible, so I don,t have to be concerned with any mechanical feedback moving through the cables into my turntable chassis. I bought the shielded Power Cable to minimize any possible EMI from other electronics and cables in my system. I have absolutely no hum or extraneous noise in my system.

Zu Audio’s eBay seller name is zu_promos. You can read about their cables on their Web site.

 

Great score. I never see those on eBay. But, I doubt that they make one for Grace arms, anyway.

 

Another few to consider are the VPI cable--which I have and like--and the MIT.

 

Ya I just missed the Zu Audio cables that were on until last night. I jacked the price up to scare bidders away and someone snagged them while I was away. Wish Zu would just price them so I wouldn't have to get into a wizzing contest to buy their cable sets lol

 

Got a set yesterday. Does the bass improve a lot with these Missions as they break in? Everything else’s is stunning at this point. Coming from a nicely broken in used set Monster Interlink 400 IIs that sounded stellar in the lows but had nowhere near the midrange detail and glow of the mighty ZU Missions. Wow.

 

Give the Mission Phono cable to burn in, and you’ll hear a more dynamic presentation with defined and taut bass notes. All the while, the midrange and treble warmth and smoothness remain.

 

Great to hear. I never imagined such an amount of precise focus on hidden details coming through without sounding analytical at the same time. Sometimes the information all comes through with such force and delicacy that you begin to imagine that prior you were trying to listen through a closed door or some other barrier.
Horns, piano, drums, guitars etc are heard so clearly individually, while playing together. The musical piece as a whole is coherent yet the individual instrumentation can be heard almost like isolation tracks.

 

Pythonman, glad you are enjoying the cables. Many audiophiles always equate thick, oversized cables with good sound, but the Zu Mission Phono sets a new paradigm.

 

I have the Audio Sensibility Impact SE phono cable. OCC copper wire, Furutech connectors, nicely built and is very reasonably priced.

 

The Morrow phono cables are shielded and are available with a ground wire. His IC's are not shielded.

The 4 series through the 6 series is the sweet spot of the line up. The 6's are a nice step up in sound.

They do turn up on the used market, but not in great numbers. Probably because people are happy with them.

I recently upgraded most of my ICs and speaker cables and sold the old ones quickly. I got higher end Morrow stuff.

Buying used is less expensive and the cables are already broken in.

I have a Hagerman cable cooker which speeds that process.

 

I also have a Morrow PH-3 which the Audio Sensibility replaced. The Morrow sounded good but my Sound Smith Cartridge is sensitive to capacitance and the Morrow's are pretty high and they get higher as you go up the line. The PH-3 is about 290 pf and the PH-6 is about 600. I needed something low and the AS fit the bill. If you are using an MC which doesn't mind the capacitance, the Morrow is not bad at all.

 

What is the capacitance of the Audio Sensibility cable you have? I have Morrow PH-3 and PH-4 half meter cables, and both are too high in capacitance. I am looking for something to replace my Blue Jeans LC-1.

 

I was told by Steve Huang the owner that the 1.2 meter is 180 pf.