Rega Planar 3 - Stereo Balance Nightmare

The USB output has a level control, which might have a channel imbalance at some settings more than others. It's a pot, and if it's a stereo pot, it could have some noticeable mistracking at some particular point along its rotation. Generally this is most noticeable at the lowest settings on stereo pots. If it has no effect and you still get the same result with the analog outs, then I am out of ideas. The fact that it is balanced in mono indicates all is well. Not much else to add other than swapping the phono stage. That doesn't even make much sense as you notice a reversal after swapping cartridge leads, but it would at least eliminate a component. The fact that a different table and cartridge, both of other brands also behave this way, is the only indication that might point to the phono stage. It could simply also be suggesting that it is even further down the chain. You need to do the leg work.
-Bill

 

Borrow an amp with a dedicated phono stage. If problem goes away,you can rest easy with your turntable/cartridge.

 

Other than the previous suggestion to test with an integrated amp, I could only suggest to measure the crosstalk/post some left and right only signals. You do have higher noise in the right channel, whatever that means.

 

I was considering this could be the issue, but as you mention swapping the cables doesn't reverse the effect.
Also, the volume pot on the phono preamp doesn't actually control the volume. It only controls the level for the USB out for recording, so it's not affecting the main line out as far as I'm aware. Plus, again, cable reversing doesn't solve it.

I got my dad's old one down, however that has a right bias of the same amount so it's useless to test with since I end up with double the movement to the right.
Hilariously, swapping the cables actually centres the image.

The unmodulated groove test is actually quite interesting in that regard - the surface noise I'm getting from the record is louder on the right channel. This implies to me that there's definitely something up somewhere, though it's not as prominent as actual audio.

 

Sounds like an Azimuth or anti skate or allignment issue. Either that or the cart/amp is simply louder on one channel. But thats just my estimation.

 

So, did you resolve this ?

 

Not exactly.
Tried out a friend's SL-1210, and it seemed to be centered. However it also seemed like the centering of my test record wasn't right, so I'm not even sure. It's possible that my turntable is fine, all my records are right hand biased, and his turntable was left hand biased. I have no idea.

The whole turntable has gone back to Rega to be checked over. I'll hopefully have some news next week.

 

Welp.

So the dealer got in touch with Rega, and then got back in touch with me. He recommended not sending it to Rega, since none of them at the shop could hear any issue, and it would be ~£100 for the labour and postage if and when it was found to have no fault. I listened to it through their £75k system, and while I wasn't convinced, I was absolutely totally unwilling to pay £100 to Rega. Especially when I wouldn't be able to fight them directly over it and it would be through my dealer.

Took it home, set it up again, sat down to try and enjoy Sleep Well Beast. After finishing the album I was just simply not happy. The balance was just not right, and at this point it's all I can focus on. Everything just sounds wrong in my head, especially when comparing to the original digital sources. Plus, I couldn't help but feel the Elys2 is super muddy.

After thinking about it over the weekend, I decide the best course of action is to get an Ortofon 2M Blue. It's a brighter cartridge, which suits my tastes a bit more. I figured if there was still the same balance issue, I could be reasonably confident it's an issue somewhere in the turntable wiring or something. They offered me a decent bit of money for the Elys 2, so I was happy to do that.

I take my turntable in, get the new cartridge installed by the dealer. Take it home, started listening to some records.
I listened to my Moana picturedisc, was fairly happy with how it sounded. Then listened to Sleep Well Beast by The National, again, fairly happy. Wasn't 100% sure on the balance, but figured it was better and I'd test in more detail later. I then got out a brand new record, Pure Heroine by Lorde.

And this is where the fun begins.

For the first minute, it was absolutely fine. Then I noticed a tiny bit of distortion was starting to creep in. Over the course of the first song, it got worse and worse until by the start of the second song, it was literally unlistenable.
I then checked Force/Alignment/Anti-Skate etc, and everything was absolutely fine. Then played the start of Sleep Well Beast again, figuring it was something to do with the Lorde record being bad. Nope, Sleep Well Beast sounded awful too. I then played Pure Heroine again, and even the first minute was bad now.

I have no idea what caused this or what it is, but guess what - I was recording at the time!
I started recording just before I listened to Pure Heroine, so I've got a really clean recording of the cartridge deteriorating and the results on different records.

The worst bit, to give you a rough idea of how bad it is.
A digital version of that, for comparison

The first playthrough of Pure Heroine
The second playthrough of Pure Heroine
The bad playthrough of Sleep Well Beast - Listen to the hi-hat at 19 seconds, and the piano

An older version of Sleep Well Beast with the Elys 2 - Just to prove the record is fine


So yeah. Now I'm in an even worse situation.
Honestly, I'm regretting ever buying this turntable. My original plan was to buy a used SL-1210 and get 2M Blue for it, and honestly I wish I'd done that. I've had nothing but a laundry list of issues with this;
- First Elys2 cartridge was insanely loud in the right channel, was replaced immediately
- Grinding noise in the spindle, could sometimes be heard in the audio. Was oiled twice and seems to not be an issue now
- A persistent balance issue. Subtle when listening in isolation, but apparent in A/B tests. Cartridge sent back to Rega, Rega say it's perfect. I have a multitude of recordings clearly proving it's not centred, the most telling of which is just in the basic surface noise of an unmodulated groove.
- Speed issues. The turntable runs at 33.7rpm. Apparently that is within spec for Rega, but honestly I don't really think it's acceptable. When you're spending over £500 on a turntable, the least I would expect was it spinning at the right speed.
- Severe Distortion on Cartridge. Brand new 2M Blue, immediately gets an insane issue with substantial distortion.

The best listening experience I've had in the last few months has been on an SL-1210 with an AT95E. The image was centred, and the speed of the turntable was exactly 33.3rpm. When a £30 cartridge and a £~400 turntable are more enjoyable than a £185 cartridge and a £550 turntable, something is seriously up.

Next step is to go back to the dealer and get the cartridge replaced again. The platter is still too fast, there's still something going on with balance, and I still feel like I've spent far too much money for something that doesn't do the basic thing that I would expect every half decent turntable to do - Turn the table at the right speed, and play the music back in balanced stereo.

Blergh.

 

Why don't you try ringing a store like Infidelity at Hampton Wick, near Kingston, Surrey and ask their view ?. They are a good bunch of people and have a long association with Rega. At least you would get a second opinion and for the cost of shipping might be willing to deal with Rega for you, or even just offer you advice on a different cartridge. Surely, worth a try for the sake of a phone call.

 

Maybe, but at this point I feel like this turntable is just a giant big money pit. I've talked to Rega directly once already, I might get back in touch with them again at some point next week. It's not that I'm having problems with my dealer per se, it's more that it's difficult to actually get anything done with Rega when messages are having to be relayed between myself, the dealer, and them.

I mean, how do I solve the speed issue? It's within tolerance. If you want better, buy a £220 power supply.
How do I solve the balance issue? What balance issue.

I mean, I mentioned this above. When buying a stereo turntable, regardless of all the variables there are two things I'm expecting;
- The turntable spins at 33 1/3rpm
- The cartridge gets the balanced stereo signal from the record

If the turntable is going too fast and the stereo signal is unbalanced, to me that's just not acceptable. The minimum that I would expect from any turntable over ~£250 is for it to spin at the right speed and for the audio to be balanced. Stability of the speed for wow and flutter, quality and accuracy of the recorded sound, soundstaging, noise, etc - That's what I would expect higher quality turntables to do better. When a £600+ turntable and cartridge can't run at the right speed or give a balanced stereo image I really have to question the quality of it, especially when a knackered old SL1210 with a crap cartridge on it ticked both of those boxes.


I know I've just been unlucky with the insane failure of my 2M Blue last night, but it's been a bit of a straw that broke the camels back. I feel like nothing I'm doing is making a lick of difference, and I'm just not enjoying listening to my records with it. As I mentioned, the most enjoyable listen I've had recently was a damn AT95E.

 

There is no reason why a properly setup 2M Blue would sound like this, and if you are 100% sure the setup is right then the culprit must be the electronics/cables or the record, or a faulty 2m Blue, which happens. I would suggest you play the record in another turntable, ideally with a 2m Blue to compare, and also, ask somebody to bring a working turntable to your place and see how that sounds.

 

Sorry for your frustration. Most of us have had similar experiences one way or another in audio.
But if you are pitch sensitive and can hear fluxuations around + 0.75% easily then direct drive is the only way for you at this price range.
33.6 is the maximum Rega tolerates by the way. You should be able to return the table just on that alone.
As you may see here:

 

If you had enough of your turntable, my suggestion is sell it. A lot of people love Regas and it won't be difficult. Buy a good direct drive with full adjustable arm. A Technics SL1200/1210 would be great. A Pioneer PLX-1000 would be great too. If you want even better quality and would pay for it, the SL1200GR or the SL1200G would be amazing. Make sure you have a good return policy. Then buy a headshell with long slots and azimuth adjustment like the Jelco HS25. Channel imbalance might be an azimuth problem. I only had perfect centered stereo playing with this headshell. You'll have the right speed and all adjustments you might need to set up a cartridge right.

 

In my experience, besides azimuth, I also had distortion with the 2M Blue. The cantilever was not centered, it was both misaligned and twisted. I corrected it with tweezers the best I could and aligned it to Baerwald the best I could and managed to get rid of distortion.

 

That image is really interesting, thanks. That says 33.5 for an RP3, mine definitely is on the high end of 33.6-33.7
I'll definitely chase this up with the dealer and Rega, I'm a little bit annoyed they said it was within tolerance when it was checked a few weeks ago.

I am indeed very pitch sensitive, which is why it's a problem. Music I'm innately familiar with I can tell enough that it just sounds wrong. I swear it's more a curse than a blessing, lol.

My issue isn't that I'd struggle to sell it, it's more that I shouldn't have to. For all intents and purposes it's barely been used. I paid effectively £470 for it, I highly doubt I'll get close to that for a used one without a cartridge.
I am regretting not going for an SL1210. Frankly, I didn't expect speed to be an issue when I was paying the amount I was. The ones under maybe £200 yeah, but not these.



As well, after listening to the 2M Blue for a while as well, I'm really not a fan of the Elys at all. I have some recordings of it, and some recordings of the 2M Blue. Playing them against eachother and switching between them is absolutely night and day, the Elys sounds super veiled and muddy. The detail in the blue is on a totally different level, so long as I can get the issue with it sorted I'm fairly sure I'll be happy with it at least.

 

Have to ask, how do you clean your stylus? And how do you clean your vinyl?

The story of how the 2M Blue started to sound bad sounds suspiciously like a dirty stylus.

 

I’m sorry if I missed this but why don’t you and the dealer just plug the table in one of their test room setups? You can all sit and listen together.

Then everyone would hear the problem. If it all sounds good there then it’s not the table. If everyone hears it then Rega should replace it.

Video the session.

 

If you want accurate speed you are going to have to purchase the optional power supply! I would suggest anyone contemplating a Rega should buy the new P6 which has a power supply included. Looks like you have been unlucky with the cartridge and got a bad example. It seems to me your issue have mainly been cartridge related except your dealer should have recognised this. Personally I would steer clear of Rega cartridges (MM). The best one they did was the Supex sourced R100 in the 80's. If your dealer does AT or Goldring that is were I would go - model depending on budget. Goldring 1042 would be my choice if affordable. Otherwise stick to a fairly budget AT.

 

There is a TT-PSU up for sale on PinkFish Media forum (I think) for £125. I found it made a difference, but I also bought the stainless sub-platter at the same time which is an upgrade all of its own.

Have you managed to test another phono amp with the Rega?

 

https//www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/rega-tt-psu.214629/

There you go. Let me know about whether you've managed to use another phono, too.

 

I'd had it for exactly an hour. After it happened I gently brushed it with one of those little carbon fibre stylus brushes, back to front. Made no difference.
The record was also literally brand new. I know technically you should clean new vinyl too, but honestly considering what will play this is absolutely not the issue.

Welcome to the issue.
Everyone at the shop claims they can't hear any problem. I definitely can, and I have recordings from the cartridge playing all sorts of records that confirm this.

The Elys2 went back to Rega too, and they said there was no issue.

I went for an Ortofon 2M Blue, which I like. But it broke immediately.
I refuse to buy the optional power supply on principal. I shouldn't have to pay an extra £220 just for the turntable to do what it's supposed to do in the first place.

Yep, phono amp is confirmed fine.
Am I right in thinking the TT doesn't have adjustable speed pots though? I know the NEO does.

 

So a bunch of other people sat and listened with you and couldn’t hear a heavier channel but you could ?

Hate to seem snarky but sometimes wax buildup in one ear can happen. I’ve experienced this. The wax buildup.

 

I've explained this a number of times, I've objectively tested this.
Recorded the USB output of the Fono mini directly into Audacity, as well as recorded the line output of it with a Novation Audiohub. Both recordings lined up so I was able to confirm the ADCs were working correctly and weren't adding any extra imbalances.
Those recordings are clearly imbalanced, and counteracting the imbalance in software places the stereo image exactly where I expect it.

Plus, I actually do know how my hearing is - If anything I've got an imbalance to the left. Right ear is quieter. So if I'm hearing an imbalance to the right, then there's definitely an actual imbalance there. Plus there's the worlds easiest test - Swapping the cable round swaps the side.

This isn't the worlds biggest imbalance. Listening in isolation, it depends on how familiar I am with an album if I can notice it. However, doing any sort of A/B test is immediately obvious. The shop refused to do this since they essentially think I'm spouting bollocks at this point. They also refuse to accept or listen to any of my objective testing.

I listen with HD800s, they listen with speakers. The imbalance is subtle, even on my own speakers it's a lot less noticable. Headphones though in blind A/B tests with family and friends have had a 100% consistency.

 

Rega's running fast is well documented on this forum. I would however have expected the latest models to be better. Why do you think there is an upgrade PS? Also you can easily switch to 45 rpm. Presumably you have to move the belt which is a deal breaker for me. Anyway my policy is to steer away from Linn/Naim/ Rega b*****it dealers. I think you are entitled to a refund at this stage frankly. Just quote them your consumer rights. Now if you can do this nip off to Richer Sounds and get one of the better Projects with built in PS or a Pioneer PLX 1000. If you have these sort of issues you will get an exchange or money back no problem. If you want something more audiophile and better engineered I would be looking at a Michell Tecnodec for a bit more money but more upgradeable. It will keep speed without the specialist PS available but obviously would benefit sound wise. The Pioneer DD will certainly give you speed accuracy at a lower price and do an Ortofon blue justice. Not a big Rega fan but the P3 with PS and Ania MC I heard did sound very good.