Black Sabbath Paranoid Track By Track Thread

Yep, you're right: no pig nose. I have no idea where I got that notion from.

 

The legend of the KISS logo is that Ace Frehley designed it, but Paul Stanley has said he did, too. In Germany, when the band played, they had to alter the logo for obvious reasons (and, I would assume, on the albums as well). I think it goes: Ace designed the original logo and Paul made modifications to it. I don't think it was so much a shot that the SS logo as Ace thought the S's looked cool like that (and he did collect Nazi memorabilia). Anyway, not that pertinent for this thread regardless of the case.

 

Since today's song highlights drummer, Bill Ward, I thought I'd comment on this video:

A six minute video of a drummer explaining why another drummer (Ward) is great and this guy cites a specific section of a song to illustrate his greatness and he doesn't play it himself or even play the portion of the song from the album he's talking about? I understood the part he was talking about, but it doesn't seem that hard to me and I'm a pretty basic drummer. As a bass player, the transition always seemed pretty easy to me when playing along to the record. Still, I'll give credit where it's due: Bill Ward is one of the more creative drummers I've heard, but there is a 'looseness' to his playing that has always made it sound like it's about to fall off the rails. I love what he does with Black Sabbath, but I'd never put him in my top 10 of drummers. I know you feel differently so I'm prepared for you to disagree vehemently.

 

Very good points . And very well said about Ward's thumbprint, such a key member on literally the whole album.

 

As one of the comments about this on YT said, "This changes everything..."

 

Hand of Doom - Not a big fave, but I dig the fast bit.

Rat Salad - A cool little instrumental piece. My thoughts are pretty much what @GodShifter said.

About the SBS/Sabotage/Souls "S" logo, I've always liked it a lot and it's almost impossible for me to write "Black Sabbath" without using that S. It has absolutely never even crossed my mind that it could resemble the SS logo and I still don't see a similarity. The angles are completely different.

 

sorry

 

Nah man, it's all good .

I just knew that stuff from the long KISS thread I finished about 6 months ago. Talk about what you want. I wasn't trying to censor you. I always appreciate your input.

 

I reckon that an understanding of jazz and blues are also important in terms of hearing all that is happening with Ward's playing, and this album is an incredible example of that. I think the last track, FWB, epitomises all of his fantastic capabilities and his amazing musicianship, with all the aforementioned influences more apparent than ever.

 

I admit I have some bias for Bill Ward's drumming, but I've rarely heard so much versatility on other drummer's works. I'm not a drummer, but IMO, very few would master so well the skill of keeping the tempo grounded under Iommi's ever changing guitar flourishes, let alone his outwordly sense of what not to play through a given passage.

 

I understand jazz and blues pretty well. I’ve referenced both when discussing Ward’s playing. I do play drums myself, but I’m not very versatile.

 

Yeah but I was not addressing my comments to you specifically, just found it an appropriate occasion to point my thoughts about Bill's drumming.

 

I'd like to comment on two key aspects about the music of BS that I've sometimes encountered not fully understood amongst fans, especially on "prog" forums I've previously stumbled upon.

1) When it comes to Sabbath music there's always an underlying trap for those who really have a complete knowledge of the chord developments or scales involved in a song - the trap is that this knowledge will never, ever suffice for the fully comprehension and understanding of everything that's going on with most of the Sabbath songs. And this fantastic album is one more perfect example of what disproves such a notion in every way imaginable. And those traped in that notion commonly miss out on what really testifies to the creative genius of the band, which is not just what they played, but rather how they played it. I mean, it's not knowing back and forth the riffs or chord selections and developments, but the way they are developed and stacked, and the way they are worked out in terms of dynamics.

2) I never encounter someone pointing out that to understand Sabbath is to first understand that they basically took ideas from Art Music not in terms of scales and lifted sections, but in terms of dynamics. And not just dynamics in terms of loud section, soft section, but dynamics in the way the band interact, in the way they develop ideas into one epic moment after another. Of course it's fine to me that the listeners like me (and I dare include even many musicians) pick up on their "heavy" side of things, the screaming solos and monster riffs, etc.. But the feel, dynamics and unique musical vocabulary really represent a sound which only Sabbath would go on to explore in such beautifully powerful, uniquely great details.

 

Electric Funeral: Probably the most sinister sounding track on this album. As is the case with "Iron Man", Ozzy's vocal melody mirrors the riff but it works perfectly.

Hand Of Doom: Such an epic track. My first copy of Paranoid was a cassette where the running order had been rearranged. This was the closing track on side 2. To me, it was the perfect way to cap off the album.

Rat Salad: Oh no. Not a drum solo feature. Actually, this song works quite well within the context of the album. The solo itself is quite creative and almost melodic. Best of all, it is just long enough to allow Ward to get his point across.

 

Rat Salad- Not a bad instrumental and Ward does do a drum solo, but this song is essentially filler within the track list or an afterthought. Good inclusion for the live shows as it gave Bill a chance to highlight his drumming style, but I'm not too keen on this one, never was. 6.5 out of 10 or a C+ rating.

 

IMO, the guy is spot on. You just don’t hear cut time to straight time done like that. It is the whole band not just Bill. Usually there will be some way for things to be set up for the next section when time is going to switch like that. You just don’t often hear cuts like that without some way to get there, and certainly not in a single beat.

Henry Rollins has described this same moment in “Iron Man” (Classic Albums: Paranoid DVD) as one that will cause you in a band rehearsal room to “sprain your mind”.

I absolutely adore Ward’s "looseness" as you describe but I love jazz, so your Top 10 might well differ from mine. Ward can lock with the best of them, but his ability to make rock music swing is uncanny and separates him from the legions of rock pounders and groovers, IMO. Easily my favorite rock drummer along with Phil Collins, Ginger Baker, Clive Bunker and Jon Hiseman.

 

I looked, it's not there. I'm a criminal!!
Well, it sounds fabulous.

I guess the cover is more than bizarre. I have not seen one like it.

Regarding the runes on the cover. That has always freaked me out too. No reason I could place, just creepy. The Nazism link could be why.

 

Much better!

 

Yeah, Ward’s ability to swing has been a constant talking point in regards to Black Sabbath. It’s a big part of their sound. It separates them from many other rock bands.

I love Clive Bunker, too. But, yes, my favorites differ from yours.

 

Hand of Doom. One of my very favourites. It is so seductive. I always think, how can this be anti- Heroine? It makes me want to do Heroine.

I know the song is about Heroine and I realize it does have a message but I don't know what it is. It is like Ozzy is singing in a different language than English, a language I do not understand and just the sound of his voice and the other instruments is so luring. This must be what it is like to use the drug. Everything is so soft and muted. So glowing and pulsing. So slow and peaceful.

There is a few moments of more, like, clarity with the part when he sings "Oh you, you know you must be blind...." But it does not last long.

These guys are so amazing. I think I am just so in love. It is like they wrote this song while using the drug. They just had something other worldly. They were a prodigy. I know I am preaching to the choir....but I have to

 

My first album.

 

@texron This thread is well on it's way. I have been thinking of people who may want to join. Doing my best. Sorry it is so late. Maybe you would like to join anyway?

 

Yeah, Hand Of Doom is to me every bit as interesting in its structure as anything from their late 70s stuff claimed to be more "progressive".