Help to chose a new amplifier - integrated or separate

My current setup is as follows:

Analog:
- Pioneer PLX-1000 with Jelco HS25 and Ortofon 2M Black
- Parasound JC3+
- Denon AVR3200
- B&W CDM-1

Digital:
- MacBook Pro > Schiit Modi > same Denon same speakers

I prefer analog but like digital as well and enjoy listening to my 1,000 ripped CDs or Spotify Premium to listen to music I don't have in vinyl and to the few CDs that do sound better that their LP counterparts.

I think my analog system sounds excellent. Digital sounds nothing special.

I have a reasonable knowledge on turntables, cartridges and phono stages but not on amplifiers. I lack both theoretical knowledge and user experience.

I always thought the Denon would be as good as any amplifier in its price range could be. It was made in 1998, sold for 1,000 dollars back in the day and had very good reviews.

However, some bad people in this forum (you know who you are ) convinced me that stereo amplifiers would sound much better than the AVR.

So I'm in the market for a new amplifier, what I consider to be the last but one upgrade in this system. The last would be the turntable, which is very good so I'm not in a hurry. I have a Technics SL1200G in my horizon but not right now.

To be the last but one, this upgrade should be able to give me an excellent sounding digital sound. I don't need my digital chain to sound as good as the analog because I like records better, so I don't need a DAC as good as the JC3+. However, I want a preamp with a very good DAC, something enjoyable I could live with for now until digital becomes a priority. I want something much better than the Schitt Modi built in my next preamp. I don't want to buy a dedicated DAC now.

I have little to no knowledge about amplifiers but as a result of my research I have the following ideas, all options available in Brazil:

- Parasound Halo 2.1 integrated. I consider this to be the most rational choice in my case. I love the JC3+, I suppose I could benefit from synergy between two Parasound components, and I read many times that Parasound and B&W are good match. I care for looks and it would look really sexy together with the JC3+ and the PLX-1000, all black with blue lights.

- Parasound P5 and A23. This would be a little cheaper than the integrated. I was told that the amp section in the integrated is superior than the A23 and also that the DAC on the integrated is superior to the P5. The price difference isn't worth it and I would discard this option.

- Parasound P5 and A21. In this case I would have a better amp, maybe too much for my current speakers but to have more wouldn't hurt. This combo would be more expensive than the integrated. A bit of a luxury.

- If I decide not to go Parasound, Yamaha AS801 or even 701 would be possible choices. Cheaper than the Parasound. I like the idea of a loudness button. AS2100 would be too expensive for my budget.

- Other choice would be Marantz. PM-14S1 seems to be great and a step down the PM8006 seems fine too. However, not sure about DAC, no USB input?

- And how about Musical Fidelity M6si ?

I'm not ready to try tubes because in my mind they seem to be a little trouble to set up and to maintain.

Other ideas or other things I'm not considering?

 

Some answers I already had from helpful fellow members in other threads:

@TheVinylAddict

I have the A21 / P5 - if I didn't get that I would have the A23 / P5. Some points based on earlier discussion:

• You definitely will hear a benefit over your AVR. I was driving a Denon x7200 AVR into the A21 (TT ---> Denon AVR ---> A21 ---> Speaker ), and by adding the P5 instead of the AVR alone gave an improvement. (TT ---> P5 ---> A21 ---> Speaker). Your AVR was made at a time when they were more substantially built, it is a good AVR - BUT, having just come from a $3000 Denon x7200WA (I got it for $2K ;-)), there was an improvement. I was skeptical there would be much improvement, and it was not dramatic and depends of course on your system, but it was an improvement.
• Think carefully about how much you want to spend, and what kind of speakers you might be driving now and in the future. The A21 with 250W power is a nice place to be and will always be a wonderful amp at any power / volume levels, and virtually any speaker - but if you end up driving a speaker with, say, 99db sensitivity driven at 8ohm then you may not need that much power. The A23 is less than half the price, and still a wonderful amp that will drive many speakers just fine. If you have a giant room, then of course the A21 may be for you. But think about it is all I am saying - if I had to do it again, I just might get the A23. But now that I am looking for new speakers, the A21 is nice on a couple of harder to drive speaker options I have. I get the feeling you may be upgrading your speakers next... perhaps upgrade them at the same time. Or just get the A21 if cost is not a factor - too much power is always better than not enough - especially clean power.
• Don't get the P3 instead of the P5 - your choice - even though there are advantages to the P3 like a non-switching PS, there are important differences in the P5 and why I bought it. One big one for me is the HT bypass - it works very well - and allows me to share my main speakers between dedicated 2 channel listening ( TT/CD --> P5 ---> A21 ---> Speaker) and HT (AVR --> P5 pass through ---> A21 --> Speakers). This is a VERY handy feature, and again, it works as advertised.
  
• If you are getting the P5 because the Digital inputs or Phono Stage are important, consider other options. The DAC is serviceable on the P5, and the phono stage is of course for entry level - if you are buying this for the DAC, then I would recommend just buying a DAC instead. I am using mine for the analog out on my SACD, and my three TT's in the main room, and the Audio out for my Headphone Amp. All analog...

Parasound makes nice gear. Plus, you already have the Parasound J3+ --- you have an opportunity for synergy by going Halo --- nothing wrong with this level of gear.

As far as the Integrated vs the separates - if space, budget, extra cabling, etc doesn't matter I personally prefer separates, but many times we all go integrated because space, budget, etc DO matter. If you can go separates, but the Halo Integrated is a nice unit too.

@Bananas&blow

If you can't get the A21, I would definitely go with the Halo Integrated. It has a better amp than the A23, plus all the features. I too was a proponent of my $1500 Yamaha AVR. Then I got a dedicated preamp and an A21 amp, the difference was not subtle. The improvement in sound quality was dramatic. Prior to that my speakers were pretty much a waste. Now they get to show what they are really capable of.

@Strat-Mangler

Wait until you hear a quality dedicated integrated amp. I think you'll be quite shocked at the difference in sound. AVRs just aren't made for SQ in mind, just like Minivans aren't made with racetrack speeds in mind. Both will do an adequate job, sorta, but when compared to the item made specifically for one purpose, there's no comparison.

@Helom

I'd avoid Yamaha if it would require international shipping. The boxes are too inadequate - my biggest qualm with their products. The Halo Integrated is a very nice unit and its bass management is a great feature. If neutral sound is the goal, both in soundstaging and tone, Halo is your Huckleberry.

 

separate

 

I would recommend separates. Separates will give you some flexibility in the long haul.

 

I personally wouldn't put much emphasis on a built-in DAC. IME, an inexpensive outboard DAC can easily keep up with the one in the Halo pieces. When level matched, SS DACs differ in sound about as much as speaker cables.

 

Considering this and the probable need to add a headphone amp, I pretty much decided to buy an integrated for space reasons.

 

I'd be curious to hear people's thoughts on the PS Audio Stellar Preamp/DAC + Stellar S300 amp combo.

It seems like it's within the budget and checks all of @4011021's boxes. Any reason that shouldn't be a contender?

 

On the one hand built in dac's are obsolete the day you buy them.

OTOH.... damn, they sure are convenient. And some sound really good - I love my Hegel integrated with its built in dac.

 

What Hegel?

 

Sorry - did you decide WHICH integrated? Not sure what you are saying - is your search now over, you found the integrated you need?

 

No, I only decided I won't buy separates. I will buy an integrated. I still don't know which one. Parasound Halo will most likely be the one. I'm between the Halo, Musical Fidelity M6si or M5si and Yamaha AS801. The Halo would be the most expensive but I'm leaning towards it because I already have the JC3+. M5si and AS801 would be the less expensive.

I believe @Helom had both the Yamaha and the Halo and liked both. If they're about the same quality, maybe I should just buy the less expensive? Or do they have different sound signatures and I should choose according to my tastes? Hard to decide since I have no chance to listen to them before buying, and of course I expect a big upgrade compared to the Denon.

 

I've been living with Stellar Gain Cell DAC-preamp/M700 monoblocks combo for nearly 3 months now and I absolutely love them, one of the most satisfying purchases I've made in audio. My previous preamp/amp combo was an Audio Research LS-16 with a Music Reference RM9, and I got really tired of having to lug the 60 lb beast of an amp over to the our local tech guru to cure the latest hum or crackling noise. The PS gear takes quite a while to break in-it good enough cold out of the box, but once I got past a hundred hours or so the magic really started to happen. I've read one or two comments online suggesting the preamp section is good but not great, but this has not been my experience. I put the LS-16 back in for comparison, and found them both to be pretty equivalent sonically, and the volume control on the PS is WAY better, with much finer gain steps-I find that when listening at lower volumes, the sound is more present and compelling than than listening with AR preamp at the same level (at higher volumes, both are equally great,). The amps are amazing-unlimited dynamics and very refined and musically natural sound, even with the volume cranked-absolutely zero listening fatigue even after many hours. I don't have a lot of experience with class D amps other than brief listens at shows, but these amps and my ears tell me that it's fully mature and refined high end quality with the right engineering. The DAC section is superior to those in both my Elac Discovery server and Parasound ZDac, and the headphone amp sounds great driving both my Sennheiser 580's and Oppo PM3's.

One last comment-my wife told me that I always mention sound differences with new gear and most of the time she doesn't notice a change, but with the PS gear, she thinks the system sounds better than it ever has.

 

H80. There's a newer version, not sure the name.

 

I have been eyening those monoblocks.

I have been running a PSAudio GCPH-1 through a PS Audio Amp (GCA 100) for years and I love it.

But, those monoblocks seem to be the answer to my upgraditis.

 

Thanks! I saw in your profile you’re also running the JC3 Jr. It sounds like those pieces must be synerging well. Pretty applicable in this case. I appreciate hearing about it because they struck my eye but it this thread seemed like the perfect time to dig for some user input. Did you audition anything else in the process that was a close contender?

 

The H90

 

How would you compare the Halo and the AS801?

 

I've owned the A-S500 and A-S1100. The 1100 is about par with the Halo in SQ, but the 1000^ Yamahas don't have built-in DACs.

 

Thanks, for some reason I thought you had the AS801 too.

 

The 1100 has bit of a tube-like sound. I found it was just a bit more realistic in rendering string and piano tones. And for whatever reason, it's less fatiguing over long listening sessions - an anomaly because it's a little brighter than the Halo. Both are very good, but the Halo has more features and balanced inputs. Can't speak for the 801, but based on the sound of the 500, I'd bet it's competitive with $1500 amps.

 

I think that is not such a huge thing, I had tube amps run for years without changing tubes. Could depend on the design. I recently spent hours with PrimaLuna Prologue integrated and separates, lovely stuff. Had an indicator for each individual tube going bad, and self-biasing or whatever it is I'm thinking of.

 

Side note, but have you been able to compare the internal DAC on that to the Chord 2Qute you have listed?

 

Never wanted to. Comparison is the beginning of the death of enjoyment. The Hegel sounds great in my office setup and I'm happy with it.

 

The Primaluna Dialogue preamp and HP power amp sounded great and I was seriously considering buying them. The fact that I could audition the PS gear at length at home and return after several months if I wasn't happy with the sound sealed the deal. The Stellar gear really does sound tubelike in the sense that now fully broken in, there's this lack of edge/glare in the upper midrange that you sometimes hear with solid state.

The Parasound JC 3 Jr is a great match with PS gear with a similarly refined sound. I hear PS is working on a phono stage for the Stellar line.

 

I did not know about the phonostage. That's VERY interesting. Although I'm extremely happy with my Sutherland 20/20, so it would have to be quite the performer to take that slot.