Sutherland 20/20 Phono Pre- Why it Sounds so Good?

Don't have to run what? The KAB? I load my MC carts @47kΩ. I like the openness and tracking seems a little better 'wide open'. But my ported woofers go nuts over ~85dBs without the KAB.

 

The KAB RF1 is an active device so isn't load dependent like a passive filter.

 

Am I reading this right? Your cartridges track better depending on the loading?

 

Yes, I was referring to your carts. Passive rumble filters will require a preamp setting of 47KΩ to sound correct. The KAB page states that the RF-1 uses an active circuit, but that doesn't say much about what's really going on under the hood.

 

I don't recall "20/20" mentioned in the ad, but I do recall it said it came with eight D batteries. Is the 20/20 the only Sutherland pre that uses eight D batteries? It was listed for $1K.

 

Ah, the batteries are not the 20/20, but the older models - PHd or PH3D and the Hubble I believe all used batteries. All are exceptionally reviewed as well. In Sutherland's current line up he's moved away from batteries in all of his models. The 20/20 is the model that currently sits in the middle. It's all the first model in the current line up that moves to two separate mono boards. Insight has a dual-mono design, but all on one board.
Based on the model, $1K is a fair price.

 

Would anybody know how 20/20 stands against Passlabs xp17?

 

I would put my money on his excellent and beefy power supplies. That is what sold me on the brand. I just have his baby, but if I ever get the money, I will move up the line. Maybe I need to get single first, I just dropped a new Insight in the Smokies, in 5 days. How in hell can a woman spend that much money that quickly and have nothing to show for it?

 

Word.

 

The Neumann time constant has been implemented in a number of phono stages for quite some time. I've been using an Aqvox Phono 2 CI for about 10 years now that incorporates it. Apparently Whest, Dartzeel, and Vacuum State Electronics, BMC (same designer as Aqvox) are just a few of those along with the others mentioned earlier that are using the Neumann curve.

But you are right in that many of the reviews of the phono stages implementing this curve have received great reviews referring specifically to both the dynamics and overall response/cleanliness of the high frequencies.

Fremer gave pretty much rave reviews of both the Aqvox and BMC (both designed by Carlos Candeias) using the Neumann correction but JA is on record as being decidedly against it, suggesting that it is trying to correct something that doesn't need to be corrected.

I can only say I've been very pleased with the Aqvox-IMO its high frequency (and for that matter, pretty much all frequencies LOL) performance is exemplary at the cost (although my cost was quite low relative to the current retail price) and the idea that the Neumann curve accentuates surface noise or pops and ticks is entirely bogus in my opinion; I think there are other design considerations such as no overall feedback, along with the ability to very precisely adjust gain, for example, that have much more of an effect on the reduction of surface noise/pops and clicks than the implementation or non-implementation of the Neumann curve. The Aqvox is among the quietest phono stages I have heard, some of which cost considerably more.

 

Parasound has them both with Neumann fourth pole, and with Rumble filters. At least my modes ZPhono USB does.

 

The JC3 models don't have rumble filters.

 

KAB it is then.

 

Good question. ! That is a special skill!

 

Unfortunately now that I hear how much less tight the bass is I need to do something. Quite possibly return the 20/20 and get a Luxman E-250 or Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Vinyl, both have low cut filters. If I'm going to spend ~ 200 for the KAB filter + new cables I may as well consider other options.

 

'tight Bass'- Bass reproduction that is well controlled, free from hangover, not slow.

 

At twice the price, I'd hope the Passlabs would beat out the 20/20, but I have no idea.

 

Perhaps they assume that a phono of that level will be paired with a table with no/low rumble?

 

Sometimes when I'm waking up in the morning I see my bass is just getting home from an all nighter, and I roll my eyes at how hungover its going to be.

 

Isn't there a way you can solve it without the need to get rid of a phono you like so much?

 

Common misconception that woofer pumping usually results from poor isolation of the table or rumble. Rumble is audible.

It can result from poor isolation but more often, it's noise cut into the record grooves - noise from the cutting lathe bearings and similar sources.

 

The term "Rumble filter" is a bit of a misnomer.

 

OK, now that makes more sense.

 

Question for more experienced MC and/or 20/20 owners. I know the 20/20 has gain up to 64db. Is this enough to cover virtually any cart out there? I ask specifically because I heard the Rega Ania MC today (paired with the Rega Fono MC). Any reason to think the 20/20 wouldn't match or out perform that Rega stage if it was paired with the Ania?

 

I am using the KCVibe with my Ania and it has plenty of gain. Mine only goes to 60db, and it is fine.