Suggestions for LS50 upgrade?

I’ve had my LS50’s for about 3 years and now and they sound great but...there is the potential to move into a large space. In that case i’m looking for a floorstander that really digs down low, but also beats the imaging of the LS50’s. My budget is around 2000-4000 USD

 

At the bottom of your budget, I replaced my LS50s and REL T5i subs with Monitor Audio Silver 300s ($2000) and couldn't be happier. Of course, I'm sure you can do better as you approach $4k. Enjoy your new speakers!

 

Loved those, or for double the price the Focal 936s are sublime. For me and my friend, we felt both were superior to KEF and I say that as a long time KEF admirer. But everyone's hearing taste differs.

Now, what do you feel is lacking in your LS50s? Just the low end? Because if you love them otherwise* I'd recommend sticking with KEF. Why not jump up to an R900? Do you have any KEF dealers near you?

*when you are looking for something to "beat their imaging" do you feel their imaging is lacking?

 

Probably hard to find something that crushes the KEF's imaging. But I felt the Silver 300s sounded better in my room than trying to match subs

 

i upraded from ls50s to harbeth c7es3 and good stands. at dealers and audio shows i hear bigger and louder but rarely better, price no object. i have yet to find a speaker that treads the fine line between forgiving and detailed better than these.

 

Stay in Canada, I think. The PSB Imagine T fits your bill. It’s a larger, more sophisticated, much, much deeper, expansive and more detailed LS50 in a tower. Imaging is wonderful, soundstage is rock solid and beautifully balanced. They’re just real good, and they fit your budget nicely. One of the best floorstanders PSB has ever made.

 

I would audition the Audio Note J/LX which is a standmount but will provide 25hz and is thus full range. But the reality is there are far more "better" loudspeakers in the $3k+ range than in the $1500 range so it comes down to space, volume, and system requirements. I owned the speaker for 13 years and properly set up there is basically nothing at $10,000 that would move me off them and I have heard a lot of speakers and I don't rely on the odd bad audio show or bad home walls for my conclusions. But to get the most out of a speaker do not let the other components slide.

I usually always recommend higher efficiency easy to drive loudspeakers (the speaker choice is more up to you) but an easy to drive speaker allows you to, in the future, choose to buy a single ended triode amplifier - which many including me feel is quite resoundingly the best sounding amplifier. No speaker can fix the sound it is sent. Garbage in garbage out - and 85dB speakers typically are forced to use amplifiers that tend to be garbage.

The big problem of the KEF is that it requires significant money to make it sound good so it is a bit deceptive - the speaker is $1500 but needs a system that is quite a lot more to get right and then of course when you spend the $15k on the source and amp - you have the money to do a lot better than the KEF.

A High Efficiency loudspeaker tends to sound far FAR more dynamic providing a life size scale - the drivers tend to be a bit bigger requiring less motion to create sound and thus unlike 5-6 inch woofers of the long throw variety - sound quicker more nimble and generallt more exciting. This is why the best speakers from most companies are the bigger speakers with the bigger drivers. The B&W 802 is better than the B&W 805, the Devore O/93 and O/96 is better than all the skinny ones they sell and so on and so forth.

But big drivers like 10, 12 and 15 have trouble integrating properly with the tweeter so you sort of hear both the woofer and tweeter as separate drivers - so they counter by making three ways - but then that adds more crossover issues as the mid driver has both the tweeter and the woofer to mesh with - which rarely happens at anything resembling sane money.

Single driver speakers are perfect in this regard but don't have the bass or treble extension or dynamics for rock music - unless you get something like the Teresonic Ingenium speaker but it is $20k

You have a great budget and you can get some really good speakers. I recommend both the Audio Note AN J and AN E since I have owned both models since 2003. The AN J/D and J/Lx should be in your price range. They are 93dB sensitive if placed near the wall or in corners. But they offer a gentle impedance 6 ohm (min 5 ohm) and thus 7 watts will be enough. They are big standmounts. You can read my review here Audio Note J/SPe Loudspeaker Review

AN J playing some Black Sabbath with 4 watt per channel OTO








My other choices in your price range are as follows in no particular order.

Spatial Audio Loudspeakers M3 Turbo S - 20 year warranty and 60 day in home trial. The J above has significantly more bass depth and power but Open Baffles tend to be easier to place - while the woofers are bigger - large drivers are not always designed for more bass but to raise sensitivity - and there is no cabinet to presurize the in room bass - BUT they can sound cleaner in less than good rooms. Hologram M3



Pure Audio Project Mundorf AMT (I have heard the Quintett 15 but they have the same approach for all their speakers which is modular and you have an upgrade path by changing the tweeter as funds are available. Not quite as easy to drive as some of the other models however. Trio10 Mundorf AMT, Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject



Photo is entry level model $3600

And for the under your budget and too cheap for most to take seriously which is a shame speaker - the Cerwin Vega XLS 215 at $1400 for the pair.

I love that this guy is videoing his system and you can see the camera lens is vibrating probably out of his phone

He has three 21 CV inch subs plus the four 15 inch woofers in the XLS 215 in a tiny room - so the sound here isn't very good but it is a well reviewed speaker.

The other speakers above are more refined and audiophile approved but the XLS 215 deserves everyone's attention IF you have the space and you can accept their looks - because while they are a little less refined and certainly more rough around the edges they do also bring attributes to the table like Slam Bang FUN. I own the KEF LS 50 but if I had the space I would take the CV in a second - no contest AT ALL. I live in Hong Kong so no space for em.

cerwin vega xls215 + 3x18 subbs

Reviews have been very good as well.
SoundStage! Equipment Review - Cerwin-Vega CLS-215 Loudpeakers (12/2007)
Cerwin-Vega XLS-215 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review - AVRev.com

All of these speakers have different areas of strengths - but as a general cheap ass - I like to check speakers out at a lower price point than i intend just in case - the CV offers a helluva lot. But you get no colour choice - and they're giant 100lb loudspeakers that need room. Still it leaves you a lot more money to buy quality front end equipment and or music.
There are others but I have to go.

Apparently the Cerwin Vegas was designed by the Engineer who designed the NHT 3.3. This is not your Father's CV

 

Bravo!

 

Among the floorstanders I’ve auditioned so far in 2018 - in addition to the PSB Imagine T I recommended above - the Martin Logan Motion 40 stands out too. I spent a week with the Motion 40 It’s actually a bit under-budget, but it’s a superb speaker. Like the PSB, it sounds like music and performances and ambience and is capable of an immersive presentation.

More recently, I handed off my Spendor A5r floorstanders for a pair of the new A4. The A4 is an excellent two-way model that replaces the 2.5-way A5r. The A5r was very good, but the A4 is better in every aspect. Most important, and like the Imagine T and Motion 40, the new A4 images like a dream. All of these speakers will fill a medium size listening room easily and with power, detail and musicality to spare. Construction quality and cabinetry are all very, very good, they all have brilliantly designed crossovers, and they’re all relatively easy to drive although in my experience the Spendors need a bit more power than the others.

All three speakers models are readily available in Canada.

 

Thank you all very much for the comprehensive replies! You’ve given me many options to further my research. I am mostly a listener to classical/jazz music so a floorstander that has a very transparent and airy sound would also be much appreciated.

 

Monitor Audio Silver 300's, Spendor A4's and Focal Aria 936's are all on my short list. Interested to see what you end up with.

 

The PSB Imagine T sorts out orchestras, chamber groups, opera, and all jazz with equal brilliance. To some ears, the Spendor A4 is even better with jazz trios and quartets, but that’s precisely the reason that auditions are the only thing that will tell the real tale for you personally.

 

Sorry didn't see the "floorstander" and "digs deep" for a larger space when i read your post the first time. The LS50s can fill a very large space if you give them clean amplification- ~ 150 watts / channel. You then have the option of adding a subwoofer (or two) to reach the low notes. The LS50s are excellent candidates for subwoofer integration. With the use of the foam plugs the bass response drops like a rock ~ 70 Hz or so making an ideal crossover point for a subwoofer.

As for a floorstander that beats the LS50 for imaging AND digs down low I don't believe such a speaker exists. However the Elac Addante (coincident midrange tweeter) and PSB Imagine T and T2 come closest that I know of. The PSB speakers do have excellent imaging because of their use of multiple smaller diameter woofers that allows the cabinet to be narrow to avoid diffraction issues. Each choice has outstanding bass that digs low.

 

I haven't heard the new Silver 300s, but the Spendor A4s are miles ahead of the the Silver 8s and Aria 936s in terms of imaging, coherence, and realistic tone. The 936s were only about par with the Silver 8s, which makes them a rather poor value IMHO. The A4s come very close to matching the imaging of LS50s and their bass can reach into the upper 30s, however, where they can't compete with the larger floorstanders is in scale and sheer output. The A4s are meant for a small to medium room. For any room larger than ~12 x 18', I'd go for the soon to be released A7s.

 

I will stand by my selections regardless of music though the CV may not be refined enough for a lot of acoustic music. The Audio Notes are mostly owned by classical aficionados and musicians (and composers) though they can also rock. Good speakers should play everything well. The thing is that the longer you read reviews and forums eventually every speaker design is recommended - here you get the wide baffle and the narrow baffle the open baffle the planar, speakers with metal tweeters silk dome tweeters, plastic (polymer/polypropylene) , Kevlar, Paper, Hemp woofers - 2 drivers 5 drivers.

My dealer in Canada is Soundhounds and it was great because they carried the following major name brand speakers (all of which are similar to the PSBs in that they are narrow baffle speakers - Paradigm, Totem, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Linn, and B&W. And they also carry the Wide baffle (fatter than they are deep) Audio Note, Devore, Harbeth, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Reference 3a, Tannoy, Cerwin Vega and Quad. (they don't carry all these brands currently but have over the years carried them and still carry much of them.

I am a homework kind of guy and I was before I was a reviewer. I spent almost every weekend at audio shops listening to everything Vancouver sold. Every dealer and every speaker. And what I eventually learned was important

1) There are general sonic "camps" and attributes and weaknesses to most products in those camps.
2) Sales and Science get married. Like Big Tobacco that spends hundreds of millions creating the "doubt campaign" that cigarettes don't cause cancer. We see it today with climate change and with speakers we see big companies with a product to sell providing the science (which isn't independent - and must in fact be).
3) the listening (provided you have respectable hearing) is the thing that will determine the camp of your choice coupled with what weakness you can best live with and which strength you absolutely must have.

For me I almost always start with the piano and the cello. The former because it is the most difficult instrument to reproduce truly well - and the latter for the emotional connection (nothing weeps like a cello).

Most systems butcher the upper notes of piano with an almost nauseating sense of doubling (or phase) a sound that almost sits in your jaw when listening - most speakers using any kind of metal tweeter (even Berrylium the best metal tweeter) exhibit this and it's basically game over right there - crossed off the list - I don't care if it presents a big vast stage - if it stinks it up here - it's over. And of it doesn't move me emotionally then it fails to do what it needs to do and a weeping cello practically begs you to be moved so you're kind of throwing a beach ball down the center of the plate. If it can't hit that then there is no hope.

At the end of the day I found that reviews and forums really didn't help me - reviews tend to favor the big brands because well they are more available to reviewers and forumers because every major city carries B&W loudspeakers and Sony headphones. And as a B&W fan way back in the day - I would always point out that B&W is big because they're good. But that argument can be knocked down fairly quickly in that in most other fields that isn't the case - you can get McDonald's every block but not a Michelin star restaurant - You can buy Ford Festivas everywhere but not Bentley.

Everyone who posts means well but the most important thing is to really listen a LOT and know what your actual taste tends to be. And to listen to the best speakers in a given technology - when I listen to a B&W, Paradigm, PMC, Sonus Faber, PSB, Devore, Klipsch, Tannoy, KEF, Bosendorfer, Harbeth, AN, Marten, Soundlab, Quad, Magnepan, Von Sweikert, Vivid Audio, Martin Logan, Usher, Revel, Focal, Totem, Mordaunt Short, Reference 3a, Studio Electric, Kingsound, Apogee, Einstein, Wilson Benesch, Acapella, Avantegarde, Von Gaylord, Spendor, ProAc, Legacy Audio, Castle, Trenner and Freidl, Gershman Acoustics, Vandersteen, MBL, Wilson Audio, or whoever - I want to listen to their best models. If the best model doesn't do it for me - chances are none of the lower models will do anything for me either (unless there is a known exception to this rule).

Then you get an idea as to the sort of correlation or league table where these 12 speaker brands that I like best all share a general common trait like they all use paper woofers and soft dome tweeters. The out of those the best 7 were wider baffle meaning wider than they are deep. Or maybe more sensitive or some other common factor. Or the ones you like best are all panels - Magnepan, Quad, Martin Logan, Soundlab, Kingsound. Or you find all of these to have insurmountable problems and thus you're just not a panel fan.

Once you find the general preference range or your own league table then it just becomes finding one in your price range. It's actually better to just listen than read. Reading forums and reviews may have the negative effect of creating expectaion and sight bias. This speaker is sexy so it's good - this one has 5 woofers which is more than 2 - more is better - bigger is better, heavier is better etc. Something that may hold true - perhaps not if we're talking women.

I may want my women slim and sexy, but I want my speakers fat and ugly.

 

So just get those! I really liked them. And there's always the 500s for even more bass capability.

 

The problem is hardware is rarely designed for optimum integration-which to me means highpass filtering to remove bass load from the main amp and speakers-let alone any kind of tuning. I find it so perverse that car stereo is way ahead in this area. Of course, you can just add the sub without highpassing the mains, however the system performance will remain limited by them.

 

The LS50s can take gobs of power and play super loud without being high passed. At AXPONA a few years ago they were being driven by Parasound a21 amps (25o watts / channel) and filled a large banquet room with very impressive scale.
I agree about mobile audio doing this quite well but would still not like to have my analog signals up and down converted on the way to my speakers.

 

I will be try to audition some speakers at my local dealers in the near future. What do you guys think about line array speakers? Any in this price range?

 

yes, several available

 

Check out Prana Fidelity’s large stand mounts. Different/ beautiful and respected. Check check check it out y’all

 

Such as...?

 

say JBL

 

Used KEF Reference 1s would be the logical upgrade path if you like the KEF sound. Wonderful speakers, I can't say enough good things about them. You need fairly high quality components to run them otherwise they will show off the weakest link in your system. Accurate sound, detailed, killer sound stage, plays well at all volume levels. You can fine tune their placement in your room with the year port tube inserts.

 

I replaced my LS50’s with a pair of Salk SongTower QWT’s in my office (14’x14’), mated to a SCS SB-2000 sub, and I’ve never regretted the decision. The similarities are eerie in the sense that they’re both very neutral sounding, which I’m partial to. The difference in this room though is that the soundstage got bigger and there’s a more cohesive sound. It’s like they just disappear in the room and you’re left with the musicians.

Bizarrely I put the LS50’s in my bedroom (20’x20’), mated to a 8" Velodyne DLS-3500 sub, and they sound better up there, more so than they did in the office. Go figure. Unless I hit the lottery I doubt I’ll ever get rid of my LS50’s and I might not even do it then. Just an amazing bookshelf at that price point.