Another vinyl cleaning thread...

Hi,

I'm new to the vinyl business. In the last months I bought some very fine new LP's. Now, I tried to find some information on how to take care of my records. It seems the general consensus is to clean new records first before their first spin. Well, that is not possible anymore (all have been played already), but still I'm convinced that cleaning them now would be a good idea. But I don't want to spent loads of money on this. There has to be a middle way that should do the job. My considerations so far:

• I don't want to spend more than 100 Euro's /dollars. So 0kkinokki's are not in my budget.
• I looked at spin cleaning machines (within budget) like the Knosti Disco antistat, or the Spin-Clean MK2 system. These seem to work fine, but my (big) concern with these is that during washing, the label gets wet (in spite of the rubber clams that are delivered with some of them). This is a showstopper for me. And also: what solution should I use (that does not leave residue on the record)?
  
• Other option is manual cleaning. I've seen some movies on youtube with self made liquids (alcohol / distilled water / soap...) and different tools (microfiber cloths, etc) that should do the job. I don't mind the extra work, but my question is: does it do the job? Does this method clean as thorough as the spin cleaning machines do? If this is the case (or at least does the job for 80%), I prefer this method. It's good enough, as long as it does not destroys or misforms the label. If this is the way to go: what products do you advise? Buy a branded solution in the store, or make one myself?

Hope to get some good advice with respect to the bullet points I I mentioned before. Sorry if this question has been answered before. I read a lot about this subject, but did not get a satisfying answer so far.

Thanks in advance!

 

I've been washing records in the kitchen sink using soap and a distilled water rinse for a decade now. I use those flat paint pads to clean the record with the soap. Rinse the record off using the sprayer. Sometimes if the surface noise is still there after cleaning I will clean again using distilled vinegar and a distilled water rinse. Works for me.

 

Hello!

I can only offer feedback on the Spin-Clean MK2 and the classic Discwasher manual systems. I have cleaned about 250 records with my Spin-Clean and never had any issues with water getting on the label. After spinning them in the provided solution, I lay them on a dish rack for 15 minutes or so and then use a Vinyl Vac to vacuum dry. I will say that I had an album where the label wore slightly, but it was entirely my doing. I used a dry cloth that well, wasn't dry and I rubbed it on the label. My fault.

Regarding cloths, I think you will have people say that microfiber is not ideal because it can leave fibers in the grooves. This is a moot point if you use something like the Vinyl Vac. Also, the provided Spin-Clean cloths are EXCELLENT and I recommend getting a lot of them at once, if possible. Just pre-wash them without detergents and tumble dry before first use.

Hope this helps!

 

Cleaning records is not a big deal. Once clean develop a maintenance ritual. Before I play a side I brush the record and needle and play, flip repeat. Your records will stay clean. Also when I buy used records I look at them and make sure their clean. I only buy new online. I buy used at my local store because they are awesome. Enjoy.

 

Hi, I've been looking for those paint pads, but can't find them here in Europe. Seems to be an American product. Saw some videos on youtube, they really seem to do the job well.
You use vinegar? Isn't this too aggressive on the vinyl? You don't use a drop of alcohol with your soap?

 

Sure helps! Thanks. So no wet labels when using the spin clean? That's great. Are you satisfied with the provided solution, no residue on the LP's? Will look into the spin-clean MK2! Seems the same device as the Knosti disco (available here in European webshops).

 

Something to protect the labels from H2o. Dove liquid soap. Iso Alcohol. Hot H20. Natural fiber brush. Elbow grease. Hot H20. Microfiber cloth. Dish rack.

Has worked for me for yonks. And will continue to. In fact i've got a stack to wash this weekend. It's all part of the LP love ritual.

 

Welcome to the mad world of records!
Cleaning a new record first is not a consensus. I for one, play my new records. If it makes no noise, I would never clean it. Records are so fussy about any kind of debris in the groove, new records often do play perfectly (or so very close) just let it be when no problem exists. (making a universal rule one for all is silly.. such as "I always clean all new records".. not a good policy)

Cleaning a record improperly can be worse than not cleaning at all. A lot can go wrong in record cleaning, wrong technique, contamination (that flannel shirt) drying against the groove (always keep one side of the drying cloth toward the label) Most drying cloths will leave lint in the groove. The Spin Clean cheese cloth is excellent, but be sure to wash and tumble dry first. Air drying is popular, but be careful of airborne lint, especially from our clothing. (you'd be amazed how much)

The Spin Clean does not get the label wet. I have been using the Spin Clean for a few years. It works great for me. Do not buy a cheap knock off, as the cleaning pads may not meet together properly, the pad fibers may be too long or not "micro" enough, the rollers have no rubber insert, so these operate roughly (buy only a genuine Spin Clean) The only downside of the Spin Clean is fluid contamination. Usually I can get about 10 LP's done, and then the fluid needs changing. Two spin cleans are better than one. Have one for wash, the other for warm rinse. The warmed distilled water speeds drying time.

The spin clean formula works very well, and recommended. As a backup, a mild solution of dish soap is effective, (no acidic citrus additives) Use a few drops only as a whetting agent. There is a wide variety of home brews for record cleaning, my guess some of them very good, others not so good. I prefer to use a warm solution.

Occasionally a record may require a different cleaning solution. An example would be used vintage vinyl which may have been subjected to airborne cooking smoke, tobacco smoke deposit, natural resins in the air, insect deposits (they crawl inside the jacket) which then a stronger solution may be needed.

Finally one more: A clean record in a new audiophile sleeve does not require carbon brush cleaning before play. I do not recommend it. Many of my fellow audiophiles may disagree. My suggestion is to just play the record, return the clean record to its sleeve. Only as the record may eventually collect some surface lint and particles, simply give it a few short blasts from a can of compressed air. The carbon brush cross contaminates, and even the most gentle brush eventually etches the groove, causing permanent low level background "crackle". The final "sideways maneuver" to get rid of a dust line, redeposits almost all of it back in the groove. (as we often see in the online demonstrations.. this is just wrong)

There is such a thing as over caring for a record. Getting "too fancy" is just a bad habit!

one more set of tips/ instructions from an experienced clean record collector,
Steve VK

 

No.1. Quite right about the label.
On Ebay there is a proper label protector
For sale.
I clean records cheaply and probably better than any RCM.
Use label protector and clean LP using

A cotton wool pad and Dove liquid soap and water.
Rinse well.dry with a thin flat sponge
Leave to dry by laying record on s tin( tuna?)
I use a table lamp to aid drying.
Refit label protector and wash using a disco antistat. I use 50/50 Isopropyl alcohol
Distilled water.
Prior to using disco antistat rest record on newspaper
And clean record surface to remove
Anything that should notbe there,
Now, i cover in winyl which is a gel that peels off when dry, its available on Ebay.
I maje my own!
With winyl peeled off ( use masking tape)
Record will be silent.

 

What would be a good one (do you have a link?) and does it fit on every brand spinning machine?

 

Thanks for taking the time to give some really good advice! Good to get things in perspective. I was under the impression every record (also new ones) had to be cleaned. People on youtube are showing the filth that comes off when cleaning even new LP's. When you leave these factory residues on the record, doesn't it affect the sound quality and (maybe worse) the durability and functioning of the stylus?
Didn't know about the permanent damage the carbon brush can cause to a record! That worries me a bit, cause I always slightly brush the record before a spin, also to make it anti-static.

 

I clean mine by paw and use the following kit: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vinyl-Revi...&sr=8-1&keywords=vinyl+revival+record+cleaner
It's two-step, inexpensive, alcohol free and above all works a treat removing all manner of grime including any mild mildew spots. It's even made in Great Britain!
I swear by it.

 

Thanks!
If a record is dirty, the stylus will track it. Fidelity may decrease, distortion may increase, and there will be noise. Some new records may require cleaning. The stylus tells the truth. If the record plays beautifully, nice quiescent silent groove (maybe just one light tick?) all is well. I would not consider cleaning a record that produces one light tick between tracks, or maybe a few barely audible ticks during a very quiet passage. It's the quiet passages that are the most challenging to clean. If the cleaning system, and technique are not perfect, and drying method not perfect, the record could end up producing more noise.

Record cleaning on an RCM, or record cleaning machine is rarely perfect. At most, an improvement is a positive result.. and maybe some that play perfectly. In the home environment, we are far from "clean enough" for a record, which to be perfect, would need to be in a clean room environment.

A little background noise is a part of the vinyl experience. How much is too much is subjective. I tend to be pretty fussy.

Used records benefit most of all from cleaning, played in dust, maybe minor groove wear, etc. A good cleaning on a Spin Clean produces remarkable improvement.

About the anti-static carbon brushes, I doubt these actually reduce static. At most, an anti-static brush doesn't produce any more static. The brush action causes friction, and friction produces static, so the tendency will always be an increase in static charge (even with a carbon brush) only that less of it will be produced. In other words, the act of cleaning the record produces static, that the carbon brush "tries" to discharge through a human hand and body. This doesn't always occur. The friction of the bristles also has a cumulative effect on the groove walls. This I have observed. My first collection back in the 70's was cleaned before each play. I played my records daily. My turntable was a vintage AR, and a Shure M91-ED tracking at 1 gram. Well, the stylus didn't cause any apparent damage, but repetitive cleaning with the soft velveteen did (very soft blue "Watts" blue cleaning wand) The micro-scratches (hazy appearance) were visible in the lead out area. I presumed if the surface showed microscratches the groove walls got microscratched. I didn't hear any distortion. However, it can't be good.

So now that I never clean before play, my vinyl remains pristine. Maybe I'm too OCD about it? (if a buyer receives in this condition however, I am sure he/she would be delighted) Some audiophiles may not care about any haze or micro-scratches from pre-cleaning... as long as it isn't audible. This condition takes many, many cleanings to become really noticeable.

Also something to note, a minimal amount of dust in the groove may or may not be visible. (as opposed to dust on the surface that's always visible) The cleaning brush will pick up some of it, but not all of it (the dust line when lifted proves this) Some dust will be broken up and driven deep into the groove. These micro-particles can not be seen, except under powerful lighting and maybe a magnifier. The stylus does "see" it, however. So, as the record may appear clean after prepping for play, and then we hear noise, the stylus "tells" us the record is not clean. The stylus we should believe, not our eyes. Multiple cleans with a brush tends to build up more micro-dust deeper in the groove, over time, and this can ruin a record.

Opinions vary, but I rest my case for today
Happy listening!

 

Spin Clean Mk II owner here.

I recently purchased my unit, and I've cleaned 30 or so albums with it so far. Not a single label has been touched by liquid. I like the system.

 

If they are valuable records I would suggest leave be until you can save for an Okki Nokki or Project cleaner at least. I have used the Disco Antistat and it is possible with care to avoid wetting labels. Main problem was runs when put into the drying rack. Still a bit hit and miss. Useful when I was buying a lot of used vinyl before prices rose. Unless new records have issues such as surface deposits or static I don't clean them prior to playing and mostly not ever unless an issue with dirt build up occurs. Once wet cleaned I usually never have to repeat the process.

 

I use a SpinClean and rinse the entire vinyl on both sides under a kitchen faucet. The labels get wet. I pat dry them quickly afterward, but out of 300-some records cleaned/rinsed this way, only four labels evidenced ink loss. Ironically (or not), two of them were Blue Notes (only one side for one record) and the others were cheap production items. I plan to get an ultrasonic cleaner sooner than later, but even then I will not go crazy if water gets on the labels. I buy records to listen to the grooved part.

 

If you have a Spin Clean, why don’t you perform the rinse cycle in the Spin Clean?

 

A lot of labels bubble when wet and don't return to a smooth state. You have likely damaged a lot of labels doing this. Get some purified water and rinse with a second pass through the spin clean as previous poster suggested. Tap water is a no no with records as there are calcium deposits and other impurities in it.

 

I've suffered zero adverse effects from rinsing in tap water and then immediately wiping with microfiber. I also get the labels wet and have had no adverse issues there either. How many hundreds of records do I need to "test case" with before I can conclude that my practices are not ruining my records? I'm up to ~300 or so, so I'm sticking with sink cleaning and microfiber. Anyone wanna buy my Spin Clean?

 

Everything you are doing adds noise to records from experience. You don't list your equipment so I guess not revealing issues? Sometimes I think this sort of advice in these threads is some kind of a wind up. Perhaps if you buy beater records this is improving them. I would suggest anyone ignore your advice.

 

Its my opinion that a wet cleaning and vacuum of the fluid is the most affordable way to EFFECTIVELY clean vinyl. There are a few ways to do this, and they don't have to be as expensive as an Okki Nokki.

Now you are in Europe so it changes the pricing dynamics some. Here is the US we have access to the KAB products, and their RCM is modestly priced, works with you home vacuum or a shop vacuum, and is a solid design with good manufacturer support. I don't know if there is an importer there, or what the shipping costs would be to you.

KAB Electro Acoustics http://www.kabusa.com

There is also a Canadian option from SqueakyClean, and their version is very nice also. Some people like the full sized platter to use while scrubbing in the cleaning solution. But it doesnt have an in line moisture trap, so a shop vac is needed to use it.

Squeaky Clean Vinyl MK-III RCM 3D Printed Record Cleaner

Now the absolute cheapest way to do this is with a PVC wand and a shop vac. You could even DIY this yourself through some trial and error. A product like the Vinyl Vac does the same job, its just bit cruder in its application.

https://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Vac-33-Cleaning-Attaches/dp/B014X2SXY0

I would choose any of these over sink washing or a Knosti.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

I typically wait until I have at least 20-30 records to clean at one time. The workflow is much easier for me if I rinse separately.

 

With a hundred dollar limit, I'd go with a manual approach. My favorite is Disc Doctor: The Disc Doctor

 

OK, after reading all this, I decided to start small and bought this set: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vinyl-Revi...&sr=8-1&keywords=vinyl+revival+record+cleaner. Just a simple cleaner, with good reviews. I guess I'm not ready yet for the bigger washing devices. Too much of a hussle for me right now. I'm too afraid of damaging the labels and I don't like the whole process of drying and waiting. I will try this Vinyl Revival method, and if it sucks, I might go for the Spin clean. Thanks for all the advice!

 

You know, I would just advize not to clean anything unless you have a proper RCM or at the very minimum a spin clean. Just seems completely wasteful to clean by putting stuff on the record and then push it in further with a cloth.
I knew I was playing dirty records for a while and it worried me a little. When I got my Okki it was nice but it wasnt like it changed the hobby for me completely.

Try this method and then leave it at your conclusion. Then get an RCM and try again is what I suggest.