System upgrade advice welcome-upcoming first upgrade in years

I currently a technics sl1200gr turntable through an EAR 834P phono preamp into a Cyrus 7 amp, into Dynaudio 52 speakers. Apart from the turntable Ive had this gear for years. CD's are ripped to FLAC and streamed through a Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6.

My vinyl side of my system sounds pretty decent to my ears, but the digital side can sound a bit brittle at higher volumes, so I'm looking for something that will tame this side of things, but also take my system to the next level.

I was considering going for an integrated amp, something like the Roksan Blak, into Monitor Audio Silver 300 floorstanders. I'm looking at re arranging my listening room, so these speakers will be firing down a fairly large room.

However, given that I already have a reasonably decent phono preamp, and also am running through the Stream Magic 6 for my digital, am I better steering away from an integrated amp. Will something like a Roksan Blak be a considerable upgrade to the DAC in the Stream Magic? Presumably yes? What about the inbuilt phono stage compared to the EAR? Would I better off going for a more streamlined amp without the phono stage/DAC? Or what about a pre- power-combo?

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated. I'm looking at £2000-3000 ballpark for the amp.

 

You say that vinyl sounds pretty good already. Could be interesting to first try and get your digital source to a similar quality level, before looking at an amp/speaker upgrade.

In other words, hunt for a great DAC first.

Upgrading one piece at a time has been a more succesful route for me than changing out multiple pieces at the same time. Helps to keep a clear head when comparing/evaluating.

 

If you don't want bright or brittle steer clear of Monitor Audio speakers. If the stream magic has a digital out that bypasses the DACs a smoother sounding model would be in order such as Beresford SEG (direct sale from 'home hi-fi'.). Maybe the latest Cambridge streamers are less bright? I'm not sure what difference another integrated amp will make. Neither Cyrus or Roxan I have heard in the past have an organic sound but more towards the dry brightly lit. I suppose you could try valves in the form of say Croft but for solid state NVA is certainly the opposite to brittle. I think their integrateds start around £300 from their Ebay store. NVA also do a very cheap pre power combo. No need to spend £2 to 3K on an amp. You can get a passive pre and Monoblocks for less.

 

The new Hegel H190 fits your bill. It contains a wonderful DAC - truly wonderful - and a superb amplifier, and its front end control (the preamp section) is about as clean and utterly silent as you can imagine. The sound is terrific, and the H190 will drive any speakers. One of the great things about a DAC that has been integrated into an integrated amp is that it takes advantage of the all of the superb AC power filtering in power supply section of the something so well designed (like the H190). That means the DAC is quiet too.

The Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 has a digital ouput (both coax and optical - use the coax) that you can run into one of the digital coax inputs on the H190. The DAC in the H190 is worlds better than the quite competent DAC in the Stream Magic.

To replace the EAR would be somewhat of a mistake, I think. It's a highly regarded phono preamp for all the best reasons. Unless you're prepared to jump to a Trichord Diablo, Lehmann Decade or Simaudio 610LP, the EAR will be very hard to improve on, IMO.

 

The Silver 300 speakers the OP mentioned have been getting some very nice reviews, including around here, without mention of brightness or brittleness. I have some Gold series monitors with the ribbon tweeter that don't really fit either of those descriptors either. Some of their past models may have, won't argue with that, I don't have much history with them, but I do like some of the Gold and Platinum series speakers they've been making in the last decade... Monitor Audio Silver 300 first impressions..

 

Sorry but whenever I've gone near MA room at recent shows whatever they were playing it would strip paint. Metal drivers may have improved but they still often are not nice. OP did want a mellower digital sound, so I would say avoiding this type of speaker design might help. People rave about other damn awful speakers on this forum and they get great magazine reviews as well. Go figure.

 

I'd spend more money towards the speakers, they make far more gross difference to the overall sound. And change the speakers first, THEN see how you feel about your electronics because your opinion may well change! Here's what I posted elsewhere about the Silver 300s:
"I just spent several hours listening to these at the very nice Upscale Audio. They were driven by a PrimaLuna Prologue integrated (NICE!), fed from a Tidal/Roon setup and a DAC...Lumin, not sure exactly which. Everything sounded very nice: Aja, The Doobie Brothers, Diana Krall, all kinds of stuff. I turned out the lights and put on Iron Maiden's "Where Eagles Dare" and then especially "To Tame A Land" which sounded awesome.

I even put on Motorhead's No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith (!!). OK, those speakers (or any other normal speakers) aren't going to crank that to the level I heard at the Cabaret Metro in Chicago once upon a time. Yet the sound out of the 300s was NOT turned into a big smear of distortion, which is pretty amazing. And the drum roll intro to "Iron Horse" had amazing punch, and I could pick out every drum hit spatially. VERY cool.

Their only fault was not sounding as nice as the Focal 936s in the other room...which are larger and twice the price.

I'd previously heard Wharfedale Reva 4s at the friendly Audio Element, and they had a very nice sound at (on sale) a lower price with cooler shaped cabinets than the 300s. The Reva's only flaw was perhaps a distinctness of each driver-I could rather hear the tweeter, mid, and woofers as somewhat distinct. The Focal 936s, no way, totally cohesive. The 300s, not quite to the Focal level of coherent but I didn't notice the drivers very separately.

Unless you really want heavy metal concert levels, or long-pipe organs, or depth charge and such movie effects, no subwoofer needed for any of these. That surprised me, but true. Highly recommended, all three."
...but especially the Focals. Redistribute some amp money towards speakers for sure and try those puppies! Er, well, not puppies, Great Danes perhaps. By the way the gloss black looks gorgeous, I was skeptical until I helped my friend set them up and they look great.

If after changing speakers you're still not satisfied with your digital sound, for the money you're spending, check out the PrimaLunas, unless you are tube-phobic. And maybe check out a non-1-bit DAC
HoloAudio Spring "Kitsuné Tuned Edition" Level 3 D/A processor

 

I was running with a Cyrus7 for 16 years. I recently upgraded by using the Cyrus7 as a preamp and added two Cyrus Smartpowers which I run in mono. Got them used from a local dealer for £570 for the pair. They made an big difference to the sound. There are loads of Smartpowers on the used market as people abandon surround sound systems and are left with them.

 

I would not touch the EAR. That is a great phono stage. As far as changing your speakers, if you like the analog sound then I don't see the point. I would leave the speakers alone for now based on what you are seeking. To me it seems the obvious issue is with the digital chain and I think the DAC would have the most impact on that. I am not an expert with DACS so I can only offer you my opinion based on what I did after some research. I purchased the Rega DAC-R a few years ago and it sounds really, really good. It provides a ton of detail and yet everything going through it sounds analog....very smooth. It's in your budget and there are enough reviews out there to help you decide it you want to audition one. Good luck!

 

Lots of great advice, thanks very much. Lots to think about. The DAC upgrade does make a lot of sense. Having stuck with a basic source/amp/speaker set up for so many years I suppose I'm a bit of a philistine when it comes to things like separate DAC's. Find it hard to image that a simple black box that just converts a digital signal could make that much difference. Just to clarify then, the digital output from the Stream Magic will bypass the inbuilt DAC? I suppose it makes sense.

Yeah I also tend to agree getting rid of the EAR would probably be a bad decision, I'm listening to it now and the sound is just the opposite of fatiguing.

Still fancy those speakers though. Heard some good things about them, and had previously read Head_Unit's review. And the Hegel H190 looks a sweet bit of kit. Oh well, I knew it wouldnt be that easy, that's why I tend to stay with the same system for years, all these decisions stress me out.

 

The good speakers are generally those that don't stand out on a short listen. Brightness that is designed to impress is fatiguing long term. They may sound nice with the Ear but not so much with digital. Actually the Ear is rather off the pace today in terms of extracting the most from vinyl especially at current retail (It originally was £300 in mid 90's).

 

Any thoughts on a phono stage that would be a good improvement on the EAR Classicrock? Fellow Steven Wilson fan here btw

 

Check my profile. The NVA phono 2 must be the biggest bargain out there. Sold online but you have 30 days to try. If you don't like return for refund (which will be honoured but I doubt NVA get any returned). Don't worry about lack of adjustments as the design is not load sensitive for most cartridges. I'm told only the Audio Note Io has been found not to work properly. Specify MM/MC and model (more for gain).

NVA - PHONO 2 / PSU Head Amplifier. MM or MC | eBay

 

Ok, just a little update. I've been home trialling a Chord Qutest DAC for the last couple of weeks. It's connected from the digital out from my Stream Magic 6 so should be bypassing the SM6's internal DAC/oversampling. I've also been running the SM6 analogue outputs simultaneously into another set of inputs into my amp so that I can switch between the 2 inputs on the fly to quickly compare the sound through the Qutest and the SM6 DAC. And you know what, I cant tell the slightest bit of difference between the two. I've been reading reviews that the Qutest is a sensational DAC in its price range, so I'm completely at a loss why I cant notice any difference. Maybe my ears are suffering from too many loud gigs over the years, or maybe I'm missing something in the signal chain? Or maybe my amp and speakers aren't doing the Qutest justice? Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

If a DAC upgrade brings nothing to the table, and you are also unsatisfied with your vinyl chain, I would investigate upgrading (or sidegrading) your cart or main amp before your EAR phono stage. The 834P is IMO a great phono stage, not the weak link at all.

Cyrus has its own house sound in my (limited) experience with the brand, maybe you are just ready for a change of presentation, which can be found either by changing amplification, or speakers, or both. A cart upgrade can bring your vinyl experience to the next level.

 

I actually have no issues with the analogue side of things. It's the digital side that I want to take to the next level.

 

You’re reading reviews of the Chord Qutest, but maybe you’ve forgotten the stellar reviews of the Cambridge Stream Magic V2 when it was released - product of the year in its category according to several publications, rave reviews by most owners, etc. Nothing has changed.

There’s also nothing wrong with the rest of your system. Everything is well matched. But you may be thinking that the Stream Magic is substandard. It is not. It may be ‘limited’ to 24/192, but it does that very, very well. Its streamer section is very good too.

I think that Chord’s FPGA implementation in the Qutest is an acquired taste, and doesn’t fit into mid-price systems like yours in which your existing DAC is already pushing the resolution limits of your amp and speakers.

The Qutest is probably a sideways move until you get to upgrading amp and speakers. Your Dyanaudio Audience 52 speakers were a wonderful value, but never boasted a great midrange. IIRC, bass weight and bass accuracy wasn’t their strong suit either. I’m suggesting that the weakness in your sytem has little to do with your DAC/streamer and more to do with your speakers.

But is your listening room quiet enough and set up well enough in the first place to let you hear the best that the 52s can do? Only you can answer that question. If the answer is yes, then your money is better spent on speakers.

 

Thanks for the advice, and yes I think I've come to the same conclusion that my system is probably quite well matched with no outstanding element. The biggest complaint I have with my system is that whilst it can sound superb on digital tracks with some space, when things get busy, and bear in mind I am into heavy rock music, things can start to get a little harsh and chaotic. A lot of this could of course be the source material that possibly wasnt necessarily brilliantly recorded, mixed or mastered at the time

I think I'm looking for an amp/speaker combo that is a step up from what I have, that has pace and accuracy to control busy music, without a harsh top end, and with decent bass and a good separation of instruments and wide sound stage. Ive been looking at Monitor Audio Silver 300 and Spendor A4 speakers, and possibly Moon 24oi and Roksan Blak integrated's. Do you think these would be a significant upgrade on my current system?

 

Nothing wrong with upgrading amp/speaker for sure, but....

The fact that you have zero complaints on your phono side would seem to indicate that the amp and speakers work well, and the difference is the source, which points to DAC or the feeding of the DAC.

Phono goes thru same preamp/amp and speakers as your digital, correct? Difference is source and phono pre (aka analog source)

Standard problem solving methods point to the digital source for your root cause........

 

I think your Cyrus amp can sort out any kind of source material quite well. The congestion and chaos is likely happening at the end of the chain - the Dynaudio Audience 52 standmounts. Put those speakers in a small room and they sing quite well. Too much volume though, and the woofer runs out of gas. Midrange-heavy matieral simply doesn’t play through the 52s. The noticeable suckout at the crossover point also doesn’t help matters.

I personally like your Cyrus amp. I think that Cyrus puts a huge amount of quality and great sound into its amps and integrated amps. Remarkable really.

I owned a Simaudio Moon Neo 240i for six months. It was good, but not great at all. Uninspiring. It ended up on a stoage shelf until I eventually traded it in. It was also never a hit in the Simaudio lineup. The next higher 340i is vastly better and a genuine heavy hitter in its price class - a truly excellent integrated amp that I highly recommend.

The Roksan Blak is a whole other animal - it’s a genuinely terrific integrated amp with a superb phono stage that I personally like better than anything in the Simaudio Moon Neo lineup. I think Roksan put a tremendous amount of value into the Blak. Its sound is powerful, rich, detailed and one of the best in its classs today.

I recently auditioned the Spendor A4. It is such a big improvement over its predecesor (the A5r) that I’m not sure where to start with any description. The A4 offers a lot of what the upscale D7 provides, that is to say a lot. I consider it a physically smaller ‘take’ on the D7 and for that reason alone I think its a winner at the price. I auditioned the A4 twice more before deciding that it should be on my short list for floorstanders. Great speaker.

I’ve never been a fan of Monitor Audio speakers of any kind. Lots of people whose ears and opinions I respect like them just fine though. That’s a recommendation for an audition.

My personal opinion is that you should consider changing only one thing - your speakers. Audition everything you can in your budget range and have a blast doing so.

 

Further to my post above. After improving my amplifier set up. I auditioned PMC Twenty5 23s and 24s, Audio Physic Avantis and Dali Rubicon 6s. I eventually settled on PMC Twenty5 23s as they sounded best in my room. I think both an amp upgrade and speaker upgrade will make a difference. Things were simpler for me as I only use a digital source. You really need to compare anything you fancy with what you have and see if the improvement justifies the cost. During my search for speakers I listened to a few £12K to £15K systems and to my ears the sound wasn’t mind blowing in comparison to what I have. You have a specific issue where you think your system is brittle at volume so I would try to islet what makes a difference to that.

 

I am a little hesitant to post in this thread because I do not want to misdirect it or start an argument about cd's versus vinyl. I am posting because I do not want to see you waste your money on trying to fix a problem that may not be due to your gear. First, however, I do agree with you that your cd player is probably showing its age in some ways. What I mean about the fact that your cd's and flac files made cd's sound brittle and harsh when played loud (especially if you play heavy metal rock) is that there are many people in audio who find this to be true and some of them have incredible audio systems. Many audio people feel that when played loud the consequences of the lower sampling rate of cd's (as compared to the higher sampling rates of hi-rez digital formats) becomes more noticeable. Thus before you go out and buy a new digital front end and perhaps a new amp and speakers you might consider testing the waters of hi-rez digital. I listen mostly to classic rock and the blues so I do not know if there are hi-rez versions of heavy metal rock, however if there are, I suggest you try to audition the hi-rez digital version and the cd on a system that can play both and see how they compare when played loud. (Of course, it will help to the two versions come from the same master "tape".)

The fact that you are happy with your system when you play vinyl loud may be due to the fact that it is analog which has an infinite sampling rate which is as hi-rez as you can get.

 

Because the AN IO series are extremely low output (in the words of somebody at AN, “zero.naught) it really needs an appropriate MC transformer such as the SxL series (e.g S3L, S4L etc.). I found it worked ok with an Audio Valve phono stage but the AN transformer took it to another level.

 

Thanks everyone. Been listening to the Qutest some more today, and I think there is a subtle improvement, but not enough to justify the price. Going to arrange to audition some speakers I think.