"Testimony" by Robbie Robertson

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Alert, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

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    Monmouth County NJ
    I'm shocked Garth is still alive. On that "Return to Big Pink" film, he looked REALLY old, and that was, what, 6 years ago?
    Yeah, Robbie was clearly the closest thing to the adult in the room. But he made sure he took full advantage of it.
    I think they were all good friends and partners at one point, but addiction always takes a blowtorch to those things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  2. I'm not sure how. He split the money five ways despite being the only one writing after the others discovered heroin. Richard, Rick and Garth asked Robbie to buy them out - it wasn't his idea. They needed drug money.
     
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  3. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

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    True. But watch the Last Waltz. Some would argue it was a vanity project for Robbie Robertson.
     
  4. Oh sure, no argument there. It helps when you're living with the guy that's putting the movie together. "Hey Marty, give me another closeup, will ya?".
     
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  5. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

    Location:
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    LOL! ... saying Robbie was the adult in the room compared to the rest of The Band is not calling him an angel by any means. Although Levon's griping about his "$100 haircut" and the fact that his mike was turned off when he was supposed to be singing was a little gratuitous. Robbie isn't Pavarotti and he's not even in the same solar system with Levon/Rick/Richard, but I find him at least on his solo stuff to be a competent and even emotive vocalist. And I think Robbie even though he lived in Woodstock and hung out with hip folks was an unabashed, unashamed product of "the music business" compared to the others.
     
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  6. Originally, after reading Levon's book, I was on his side. But, between Robbie's book and the documentary on Levon, I started switching sides. Levon really comes off as a miserable old man who will not let go of a grudge despite all the benefits to doing so in that documentary. Then, the one that sealed the deal and pushed me squarely into Robbie's camp was Barney Hoskin's "Small Town Talk", an excellent history of the town of Woodstock. He makes no bones about how drugs ruined a peaceful little town and has little sympathy for the three heroin amigos in the Band.
     
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  7. Mr-Beagle

    Mr-Beagle Ah, but the song carries on, so holy

    Location:
    Kent
    Where is the evidence for Garth being addicted to drugs?
     
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  8. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

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    As I said upthread, Robbie was playing by the rules in place at the time. Levon wanted to go by rules that were in place at a different time, in which contributing to arrangements ... "communal music making," something Levon was "a big believer in, as I read one time ... can get you a songwriting credit and publishing points. Levon taking that grudge to the grave doesn't speak well of him.
     
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  9. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

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    I agree. If it wasn't for Robbie, they probably never would have gotten past playing Tony Marts on the Jersey Shore.

    I love Levon Helm more that almost any other artist, but he was very bitter, and it might have been good for him to let it go.
     
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  10. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    This is something that is constantly glossed over in the easy platitude that “addiction is a disease.” It may be, but addicts wreak havoc on families and personal relationships. They lie, steal, and cheat to feed their addictions. They are dysfunctional and self-destructive and they always have to be the victim.

    I love Levon too however if Robbie was inclined to take advantage of business situations the addictions of his bandmates made it very easy for him to do. As usual I’m sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    It’s easy for the “winner” to be gracious. Robbie is rich, acclaimed and comfortable how bad would it look if he were bitter? Levon was living a hardscrabble life to the end, that leads to bitterness. Some of it may have been self-loathing, knowing that he had it all and blew it.
     
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  11. Sorry, I worded that poorly. Richard and Rick were doing heroin, Garth wanted the money because "he had something he wanted to buy and could use the cash" according to Robbie. Didn't mean to say that Garth was a druggie.
     
  12. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    This post needs to be made a sticky and put right at the top of every page for every Band discussion here, especially when the discussion gets down to the inevitable "Helm VS Robertson" talk:righton:
    That's one of the things I like about Barney Hoskyns' books- Hoskyns doesn't come across like some rabid fanboi who thinks the sun shines out of the artist's backsides. He can be very critical at times, especially where the bad habits are concerned. Have you read Hotel California, Kevy? Along with Across The Great Divide and Trampled Under Foot, Hotel California is Hoskyns' best book IMO.
    There isn't any:laugh:. Garth smoked a bit of pot now and then but was the only guy in The Band who steered right clear of the hard drugs. Wise decision. Garth's a pretty straight (if eccentric) guy by most accounts, probably a good reason why he's still with us at the age of 81 (I think that's how old he is now)
     
  13. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    Hoskyn's book is very good. It's pretty clear that Robbie had higher aspirations than the rest of the guys, who seemed like affable country bumpkins that were focused mostly on drinking, doing drugs and smashing up cars. That said, I also think its pretty clear that Robbie never came close to realizing any of his aspirations, post-breakup. I always thought it amazing that a guy that could write two of the most classic, legendary albums of all time could run out of gas the way he did (no, I didn't care for any of his solo work...at all). I guess they truly were a "Band".
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  14. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Robertson certainly comes off very well in the film, but the vanity project angle-tends to be overstated nowadays. There's no reason why the film wouldn't have showcased the group's guitar-player and de facto leader, especially since he was the most articulate member. Levon has the lion's share of vocals and gets almost as much screen-time as Robbie--the film jumpstarted Helm's movie career and ironically it turned out lengthier than Robertson's. Rick Danko literally gets the spotlight with "Stage Fright" and "It Makes No Difference" and even gets to preview his solo record.

    That leaves two under-represented members: Hudson and Manuel. Garth has never been the chattiest of men, so his reticence in the interviews is understandable, and while a longer "Chest Fever" would have been nice, it's not logical to expect the film to include a five minute organ instrumental. That leaves Richard, and his regrettable lack of presence was probably self-inflicted. In the interviews he's clearly drunk or stoned, and anyone who's heard the original audio of the concert knows that Richard's voice was in poor shape that night. "King Harvest" and "Acadian Driftwood" come off especially ragged, and the on-film performance of "The Shape I'm In" isn't much better.
     
  15. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

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    Monmouth County NJ
    Robbie was always interested in film, and clearly loved being interviewed and interacting with a Hollywood auteur like Scorcese.
    The rest of the guys looked like they were having a colonoscopy.
     
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  16. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

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    Levon was just pissed about everything to do with the whole deal.

    IMO the camera loved both Robbie and him, but Levon actually was a much better actor than Robbie.
     
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  17. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

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    Levon's book was bitter, but I still guffaw when I think of his line about the filming of "The Last Waltz," where he said Scorsese made Richard Manuel look like Che Guevara after the Bolivians got done with him.
     
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  18. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    Hahaha.
    I always thought Viv Savage's (Spinal Tap keyboardist) quote where he says "have a good time ALL the time" was an homage to Richard Manuel in the Last Waltz.
     
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  19. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    If I recall Levon's book correctly, Levon stated that The Band''s members contributed contributed to the creation of those songs. According to Levon, they were to be credited on the songs and that mangement would correct the oversight.
    After the Brown Lp came out, and they saw the same situationon the credits they lost in trestle in helping out on the songs.

    I don't know if if that is true, but most agree that the quality dropped off after the firest two LPs.

    There is a Rolling Stone Interview with Robbie around 1969-1970 where he discusses the creation of The Weight. It sounded like it evolved out of a jam session. Levon said the characters in the song were people they knew.

    I feel so sad, that a long time ago I bought into The Band myth. The myth of brotherhood and the code of the 3 Musketeers "One for all and all for one."

    Turns out it was a business arrangement, that was not as equitable as all thought.

    Easy to blame the failing on Ambition. lack of Ambition, too much Drink & Drugs and being country bumpkins. One could also add poor management. Puck your poison.

    I fell in love with them when all the moving parts functioned together.

    Note: It has been noted that the original Last Waltz recordings, of the weakness of Richard Manual voice. It should also be mention that Robbie had more that a few clams himself.
     
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  20. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident

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    Levon said it best in his film...it was good for the first 2 albums, then it went into the ditch.
     
  21. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Levon's assertions about the credits don't make much sense (and if true would make him and the other members look incredibly naive or just stupid). Here's a credit breakdown by album:

    Big Pink:
    Bob Dylan and Richard Manuel (1)
    Bob Dylan and Rick Danko (1)
    Robertson (4)
    Manuel (3)

    The Band:
    Robertson (8)
    Manuel and Robertson (3)
    Levon Helm and Robertson (1)

    Stage Fright:
    Helm and Robertson (1)
    Manuel and Robertson (2)
    R. Robertson (7)

    Cahoots:
    Danko, Helm, and Robertson (1)
    Robertson (8)
    Robertson and Van Morrison (1)

    Northern Lights, Southern Cross
    R. Robertson (8)

    Islands
    Robertson (6)
    Danko and Robertson (1)
    Danko, Hudson, and Robertson (1)

    If Robertson was such a credit hog, why did he give his band-mates credits on every record aside from Northern Lights? "Jemima Surrender," "Strawberry Wine," and "Life is a Carnival" are hardly inconsequential dogs. Furthermore, "Life is a Carnival" and "Islands" are exactly the sort of songs you can imagine other members making significant authorial contributions to, since they're mainly instrumental compositions that could have arisen from jams. "The Weight" doesn't sound like that sort of song, and the Rolling Stone interviews I've seen from 1968 ("Friends and Neighbours Just Call Us The Band," August 24) and 1970 ("A Recent Encounter with Robbie Robertson," July) don't suggest otherwise. That Levon supplied raw material for the song isn't the same as actual songwriting, and he has a bad habit of confusing arranging with songwriting.

    I'm sure there was a substance abuse all around, but unfortunately it was Richard's vocals that most audibly suffered.

    Combine the best songs from Stage Fright with those of Northern Cross and you have an album as good as the brown one. And on their own both of those albums are still very good. Undoubtedly they would have been better if Richard Manuel had continued writing songs. That was part of the group's tragedy, and Robertson's efforts to keep the Band going put him in the same unenviable, bossy position as McCartney in the Let it Be period.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  22. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Rick was having some tuning issues with the Gibson Ripper bass on the night as well, most audibly apparent on the raw soundboard tapes. Levon claimed most everything except for his drums was redone in the studio after the concert- I don't think it was "everything" but clearly there were some technical blemishes that needed to be fixed before the film/album was released.
     
  23. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    I have no problem with them fixing things. Little Feat Wait in For Columbus had things fixed and it sounds great.

    4 months before The Last Waltz, the King Biscuit Flower Hour, recored The Band in concert in Washington, DC. That show sounds great. Same with them on Saturday Night Live.

    The Last Waltz has an edge that makes it special, especially when seen in a movie theatre as originally intended .
     
  24. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Hey, man, if we had to ditch all the "live" albums with after the fact tweaking, there wouldn't be many live albums left!:laugh:
    Yeah, that King Biscuit Flower Hour show is good but hearing Richard Manuel trying to croak his way through "Tears Of Rage" can be a tough listen. The Northern Lights material came off really well live.
    I would love to see The Last Waltz on the Big Screen...hey, Robbie and Marty, whaddya you guys think about doing a 40th Anniversary rerelease to theaters?:righton:
     
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  25. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    In case anyone doesn't know, a recording of the entire four-hour concert is legally available for viewing on youtube. In some cases, like "Down South in New Orleans," the original performance differs significantly from the album version.
     
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