Goldring 1042 and Phono Preamp Gain

This is a new model that looks like this:



I know this company's products don't always have the best rep but I am curious if anyone has tried this model. Retail seems to be around $150, though not many stores seem to be selling it just yet.

 

No tube in this one? Bellari preamps get a lot of mixed reviews.

 

No tube, and that's one of the reasons I'm interested, besides the adjustable gain and capacitance settings. I wouldn't bother with their other offerings at all.

 

They sure make some of the gaudiest looking gear, but that might just be my lack of artistic flair coming through

Don't you already have a few low cost phono preamps around? They are kind of a unique company in some ways, built in Salt Lake City, and all through-hole type parts, no surface mount, unusual for a relatively high volume company. In my mind, the phono preamps kind of get grouped in with all the inexpensive Chinese products, but they also have a huge line of audio accessories. I've never heard any of their products, nor had much interest, but they do seem like pretty ambitious people and have set up a good distribution network.

 

There is nothing wrong with either of the phono preamps I have. I'm interested in one with the ability to take the gain lower since I recently got a Goldring 1042 and the output is a little hot for 40db of gain (6.5Mv output), which is as low as I can go without having either of my current phono pres modded in some fashion or resorting to in-line attenuators. I am interested in the attenuators but also wonder if they will have a negative effect on the overall sound. Mixed opinions out there on that.

 

Are you getting overload on your amp inputs or just don't like where the volume control is positioned for normal listening? Doesn't seem like 40dB would be that high, isn't the phono still quieter than most digital inputs? I guess some of the integrated amps do have pretty low sensitivity on the inputs. And adjustability is usually a good thing, as long as it doesn't compromise the design (and resulting sound quality) too much.

 

I don't think I'm getting an overload. It's not a problem on all records either. It's mostly on hotly cut records where the cartridge doesn't get along with the 40db of gain. It's not a volume control issue either, as I don't fixate on where the little dot on the knob is. Every record is at a different level and I adjust where it sounds comfortable to me. When those hotly cut records "peak" on certain vocal sounds or instrument sounds, that's where I'm noticing an issue. This is mostly on records from late 70s, early 80s and so on, records cut hot with narrow inner grooves. If I'm playing a jazz record or something that's cut conservatively it's not an issue.

And yes even with the high output the cart is still quieter than my CD player or DAC. I think it just needs less gain. The KAB calcuator says 34db of gain is ideal.

 

It's hard to tell on the VP549 how much gain you really have. It is spec'd at 30dB, but then you have the front control that is labeled -10 to +4 dB, I don't know if that is actually changing the gain or just attenuating the output. Does 0dB on the control give you 30dB gain? Are you counting on it to give you a gain of 34dB with control cranked all the way?

I'm not really clear on what you mean when you say the cartridge doesn't get along with the 40dB of gain, presumably you are sensing some distortion or harshness on the loud parts, is that the issue, some sound becoming unnaturally accentuated? Just curious, not doubting what you hear, just seems more likely a cartridge and/or tracking problem than a gain issue if there is no overload occurring in the next stage, and the phono preamp is designed with enough headroom. You've tried other 40dB preamps and get the same issue?

 

To the first point, I have emailed the company to ask for more details on the range of gain adjustment.

To the second point, yes, there are sounds that are accentuated in an unpleasant manner. Again, this is only on certain records. From what I am reading on phono preamp gain, this is a common problem when there is too much gain involved. Before I put the Goldring away to take a break from it I double checked alignment and it was on. I also increased the VTF a little bit from the nominal 1.75g to 1.95g. I need to spend more time with it, but I'm pretty well convinced it's a situation where there is too much gain. I even tried cartridge with a test record and it seemed to do okay on that.

As far as overload goes, I have no way to accurately check for that. For all I know it could be overloading on the peaks very slightly.

 

I have a second table set up with a 4mV-ish output cart and a phono stage that has a fixed level of 40db gain. Playing the same hotly cut record, the unpleasant peaks are not there. Both the Goldring and the other cartridge have advanced stylus profiles also.

On the same table I use the Goldring on (and the same preamp), I have another cartridge that has 2.5-3MV output, no unpleasant peaks with 40db gain with the same records.

6.5MV is a lot of output for an MM cartridge (outside of some DJ carts) and I don't think phono preamp designers are expecting this. Most of the newer preamps on the market have 40db at the lowest gain setting...just seems to be too much for this Goldring cart on certain records that are cut hot.

 

Well, the Ortofon 2M line is almost that high too and they are all over in modern times, and the Goldring is actually spec'd at 5 to 8 mV, but in general you are right, MM cartridges are a bit hotter than they used to be. One problem is that many preamp manufacturers don't publish any specs for input overload, so you have no idea how much they can handle. Look at a nice AR preamp and you will see something around 70mV, so almost no chance it will ever overload even on very hot records. But who knows with your MOFI (or the Bellari), just going to a lower gain preamp doesn't mean it won't overload too.

It could be your the integrated amp can't handle that signal level cleanly, in which case the lower gain preamp would help, you could just make some attenuator plugs for the inputs as a quick test, didn't you make some for phono loading? You would just need a divider with two resistors, maybe drop the level around 6dB with two 5K resistors, one in series and one in parallel with the input, that would still give you a high enough input impedance to not load the preamp output too much. If the series resistor value is too big, you chance rolling off the highs because of the input capacitance, so best to use them at the IA input and not the preamp output so it doesn't see the cable capacitance too.

 

The owner's manual for my integrated has limited tech info, so you may be right about it not being able to handle the hot cart with 40db of gain. I think attenuators are a good idea. And yes, I did make some resistive loading plugs for one of my carts but I don't have the proper plugs to make attenuators. I do have a ton of resistors though. I'm thinking of trying some Harrison Labs FMOD attenuators (the 6db ones). I've had good luck with their hi-pass filters which I use as a rumble filter for my Rega phono pre.

If that doesn't work I may be looking for another phono pre. I really don't want to do that because I'm happy with the MOFI unit otherwise and there aren't a lot of choices that look good with the lower gain adjustments I'm looking for. I had a Schiit Mani with a 30db gain setting, but I had trouble with RFI and had to sell it.

 

Yea, good point on the attenuator plugs, those feedthrough-type male/female connectors are hard to find. I remember cutting into some inexpensive RCA cables to add a couple resistors for a test, you could always do that too, just solder in the resistors near one of the plugs and add some shrink wrap. But pretty easy just to click buy on a couple pre-built ones too. Let us know how it works out, interesting discussion, even if only the two of us

 

I just received the 6db attenuators today and installed them. The volume control on my IA with this cart definitely has more range now. I need to spend a bit more time testing some different records to see how it does and if this solves the problem. If not, my next step is to move the cart to a different headshell (lighter, finer range of adjustment) and play around with VTF and antiskate. Last resort would be to try this Rolls unit.

 

Not at all, I'm reading carefully, just have no knowledge to jump in. I use a 5mV cartridge with a 48dB gain phono stage so these threads about phono gain always interest me. You may go on!

 

Here is the response Rolls gave me about gain adjustment on this unit. I seems I could get down to 32db-ish of gain with the unit. That looks attractive.

The VP549 at 6.8mV input at the half way up "0" setting you will have 810 mV out (41.51 dB of gain) and adjusting down to the -10 setting with the same input you will have 260mV out (31.64 dB of gain) so the -10 label is just about spot on. So you will be able to do just what you are looking for with the VP549. The mono button might be added but not at this time, mono is a bit tricky as mono pressings age makes them so different in design and for some only a mono cart should be used. I have attached a newly updated manual with all the specs we just measured for you, also in the manual is a section on hot carts and DECCA.

 

Strange they spec it at 30dB gain.

 

They updated the manual with the more accurate specs. My guess is those earlier specs were rough estimates.

 

Oh OK, I see that now at their site, probably gonna take quite a while to get all the vendors updated ... just curious, have you had the itch to try a phono preamp a bit further up the high end ladder yet? Or maybe you have in the past?

Specifications

• I/ O Connectors: RCA, 1/8" TRS Stereo
• Gain: 41.51 dB gain @ 1kHz at the "0" setting 31.64 dB of gain at the "-10" setting 45.66 dB of gain at the "+4" setting
• Input Impedance: 47k ohms
• Output Impedance: 32 ohms Headphone, 470 ohms RCA
• Frequency Response: 3Hz to 36kHz
• Equalization: RIAA +/- 1 dB, 14Hz to 23kHz
• Rumble Filter: 20Hz
• THD: .02% @ 1KHz
• S/N Ratio: >94 dB unweighted
• PWR: 15 VDC
• Size: 5.5"w x 3.5"d x 1.25"h

 

So I did some listening with the attenuators installed and I'm not sure I like the result. I couldn't notice much of a difference in sound when I played a loud rock album (Smashing Pumpkins' Siamese Dream) but when I played some quieter music (Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark) something felt very off, like some of the fullness had been sucked out of the music. It could just be my mind playing tricks on me but I'm not totally happy with the result of the 6db Harrison Labs attenuators. I am wondering if I would obtain better results with the 3db attenuators or just switching to a phono preamp with lower or adjustable gain.

I will say that the Goldring 1042 seems to be sounding a bit better with increased VTF and AS. I've got both at 2 right now. VTF is the max that the manufacturer recommends. I wrote Goldring to see what gain they recommend for this cartridge. I know what the KAB calculator and another methods says but I'm curious about their recommendation. I've also written MOFI about the preamp, and whether they thing a cart with high output like this is too much for the Studio Phono preamp.

In general, as much as I like the sound of this Goldring cartridge, getting it dialed in properly has been more of a PITA than any other cartridge I've used.

 

I don't know what resistor values or exact circuit design the Harrison (or more expensive Rothwell) attenuators use, but as I said above, you really have to be careful with the resistor values in passive attenuators or the high frequency filtering due to the input capacitance (and cable capacitance if placed at the source) will have too much affect on the sound. But I was suggesting the attenuator more as a troubleshooting aid, not as a permanent solution.

People have reported both the Harrison and Rothwell attenuators to not be transparent, but without knowing more about the test situations, it's hard to draw meaningful conclusions. I would suspect they are correct, but you do have to be pretty careful in listening tests to assure the same loudness in both test cases. I would use a test record with 1KHz (or lower) sinewave and DMM on speaker lines to set the volume level the same for each test, or test CD/digital track if not a vinyl-related test. Level matching is really the only way to assure the comparison is valid.

 

Right, these would be a temporary solution until I could get a different phono pre with a greater range of gain adjustment. I plugged the attenuators into one of the inputs of my integrated, not directly into the phono preamp. RE: high frequencies, if anything I'm noticing more of an effect on the mids than the highs with the 6db attenuators, but that could also be due to the fact that I was listening to the Goldring with too much gain for awhile and got used to distortion in the mids.

I have this test record, which does have right and left 1K test tones. Problem is, I don't have a way to easily record the output. I need an ADC, which do not have at the moment. I could try recording it with one of my laptops using the mic input but I'd be leery of mucking up the results doing it that way.

 

You are talking about recording it because you don't have a meter to measure the speaker output? I was just talking about using the test tone to assure the level is set the same for testing with and without the attenuator, since you said your mind may be playing tricks on you. The level needs to be set very carefully to assure valid testing. You would play one of the records and songs that give your system trouble with the volume set where comfortable, then remove that record without touching the VC, put on test disc and play test tone track and measure the level at one of the speakers, then turn down VC and install attenuators, replay test track and set the VC for same level as before at speaker, then put on the problem record and play the track again. Usually takes a few switches to get the full picture, and to be reasonably sure, at least for me. Of course, if you have stepped atenuator type VC, you would only have to measure once since the settings for each test case would be repeatable.

 

I have an SPL meter app on my phone. Not sure how accurate it is. Even if I managed to set the levels just so, I'm not sure I trust my ears 100%. Ideally I'd want to record the output of the test record and compare graphs. Setting levels for that would be important though.

 

But I thought the whole idea of this discussion was that you were repeatedly hearing a problem on certain records. This simple test was just to hear if you could get rid of that problem by reducing the output level of the phono preamp, not to digitize a test record track and try to analyze it with graphs. I think maybe we've gone a little astray here, probably my fault