Please Help Me Power my Multichannel System (Polk SDA's, Oppo 205)

Hi: I'm a newbie putting together systems, and after I inherited my 2 Polk SDA 2's, this forum helped me choose some Polk SDA CRS's (3 of them) to match up for a 5.1 system (w/Infinity powered sub). I subsequently have been lucky enough to snare one of the remaining Oppo 205's, which I wanted because I have a lot of multichannel discs---my goal is to get the best audio possible. I'd like to power all this up with some proper amplification, but am just not sure (or trained enough) to know what my best options are. Right now I'm using a borrowed Yamaha HTR 6160 receiver. I've upgraded the tweeters on the SDA 2's, and they are 4 ohm power hogs that have never been fed properly. I'm running through an HDMI output from the Oppo into the Yamaha, and I'm sure I'm losing out by not taking advantage of all that the Oppo offers sonically (its DAC, balanced outs, etc.). What would folks recommend for amps in my situation? I don't care about video; it's nice to have surround with my 43" LED but I don't really care that much about it. So it doesn't seem to make sense to pay a lot of money for an AVR that has enough muscle (or does it?). I know I'm severely under-powering those SDA's and I've never even heard them through a proper amp. I intend to add a decent turntable down the line, but it will be awhile before I get serious about vinyl (if ever---though having a good system may tempt me to try, at 57 I do have a decent old collection). I know I need to get a "common ground amp" according to what I've read, but I'm not even sure what that is to be honest(!). So, I'm the living definition of knowing a little is a dangerous thing. Was thinking I would use the Oppo as a pre-amp...maybe that's a bad idea? Anyway, whatever advice you all have is greatly appreciated. The folks at SHF who recommended the SDA CRS's as satellites and a center channel were a great help, and they sound great. Now I need help to really finish the job. I'm willing to put in the required money (within reason...$3000 budget but could go up if necessary). Thanks in advance!

 

A common ground amp shares the ground (negative) circuit of the left and right channels. If you are using the SDA cable between the two pairs you have to use a common ground amp. If you are not using the SDA cable it makes no difference as to what amp topology you use, but you're only using half of each speaker and missing what SDA is all about.

So, a 5 channel amp is what need and almost all of those will be common ground. Something like this will have the current to properly drive the SDA's.

Anthem MCA 525

You will also need a pre pro or AVR.

Parasound would also be a good choice.

 

Thank you, I read about a number of folks here using the 205 as a pre pro, to save money perhaps? I assume you think that’s not a good idea..Anthem sells the AVM 60 but it’s about the same $$$ as their amp. Lots of bells and whistles on that one for video.

 

Also curious to know the advantage of separates, in my case. There’s a Parasound integrated stereo amp in the classifieds here.

 

The Parasound Hint that is in the For Sale section is an excellent price. I doubt that you would find better. Plus, I have I exchange PM's with and have bought from the seller, whom I have a high regard for.

Check out the information and listening room tour that I have below my system profile, it is very descriptive and has photos and may give you some idea.

I am not a AVR type of person and I think the the Hint is a solid choice for your SDA's.

You might want to consider an emotiva processor to use with your Hint. They make, and I have a a 4k Emotiva surround sound processor that is excellent for surround sound use. I have their entry level processor, which is their MC-700 which sells for $699. A photo of my Emotiva gear is in my equipment rack. Here is a link to their surround sound processor page. They also have a high end processor at $2,500. They will be releasing a new 16-channel Dolby surround sound processor in the near future.

Anthem makes some nice stuff, but their products are nor inexpensive.

I have no issues with Emotiva gear and have used their equipment for years. I feel that they make very high quality gear for the money.

You will want to use the DAC in your 205, into the Hint for your front channels. I have the 203, because it fits nicely under my TV and I use it only as a transport for CD's. My system DAC is an older ESS Saber DAC that is inside the Peachtree Audio iNova. I believe that it is the same DAC that Oppo used in there older '95 player.

What you might consider, is a three channel amplifier for your center and two rear channels.

Emitova makes a nice five channel power amplifier for $799, the A-5195. I know that it is two more channels that you might need, but you hav a couple of extra channels that you can use as back ups, if needed.

 

Are you using the SDA cable on either pair?

 

I am, on both the front and rear speakers.

 

Whatever route you choose, be sure the receiver or pre has multichannel analog inputs. Those are becoming harder to find new. Plenty of options in the used category as mc analog was fairly standard in the early days of bluray. You would be hard pressed in the price range to find separates that have a better DAC than the Oppo. Not saying they don't exist, but that is the strong suit of the 205.

 

Ok, then you're using them as should be.

A nice separate 5 channel amp will drive your speakers much better than any AVR alone can do. A pre pro will have a better pre amp section resulting in better sound for music verses an AVR, but AVR's tend to have more bells and whistles for less money.

An integrated amp is going to be 2 channels, not what you need.

 

The home theater inputs on the Hint make it fit right in my surround setup without having to sacrifice anything on my stereo setup for music. I'm using a much cheaper Outlaw 5 channel amp to drive the center and surrounds and a UMC-200 pre-pro. I think it sounds awesome and I got the Outlaw and UMC used for like $700 combined on Ebay. If the OP is not focusing much on music playback, I wouldn't go that route, but if the integrity of his two channel system is important to him, I think it's a great idea and allows one to skimp a little on the rest. Worked out for me

 

Generally speaking I recommend getting an AVR with pre-amp outputs. That will enable you to keep your options open in the future should you decide to change amplification. Specifically - 2 channel audio SQ might improve if you connect a dedicated stereo amplifier to the front left and right pre-amp output. Please note that in this case the stereo amplifier should have an HT bypass input.

Basically you end up with the best of the world (IMHO, YMMV, etcetera): A multi-channel setup that doesn't compromise 2 channel audio.

 

I see there are some relatively inexpensive used multi channel amps on EBay with a lot of power (eg Adcom GFA 7400 for $480). I noticed though they don’t have any balanced inputs. The Oppo has balanced outputs for the front two speakers. Is that an important consideration or should I just use the RCA analog outputs on the Oppo 205 to save some money? Not sure I can afford a high end AVR with pre-amp outputs along with the, say, Parasound Hint (whose DAC I don’t need with my Oppo) but again, audio quality is paramount. Those Emotiva multichannel amps...the price is right...

 

The front two channels can be powered by the Hint, which is an excellent Integrated. I use my towers for both Stereo and HT. There is nothing in the world wrong with doing that and powering them both by the Hint. I have two different types of front speakers, I can run one pair or the other or both. The Zu Omen definition's are powered by a KT88 based 36-Watt PrimaLuna Prologue Five and the Polk Audio Flagship LSiM707's are powered by a generation one Emotiva XPA-2, a 250-Watt power amplifier.



The XPA-2 is on the bottom right. The processor is on the bottom shelf above an Emotiva 250-Watt XPA-100 mono amplifier, which runs the center channel, and is used only when running as a HT 5.1 Surround sound system. The Emotiva processor is their new MC-700 4k unit which replaced their earlier UMC-1.



My central point of control for the system is a Peachtree iNova. I use it for that master source selection, an earlier generation ESS Saber DAC, and its class "A" preamp. I don't use its built in power amp, in favor of all outboard power amplification.

Where I use my older iNova, the OP could use the Hint in its place, if he so desired to do so. The Hint is a better, modern designed and built unit than the iNova and has an excellent power amp section, which would not require separate outboard power amplifier's, like I have done with the iNova.



The 5-channel Outlaw is a perfect example of a good but not uber expensive amp which is perfectly well suited for use as a center channel amp.

I use a 50-Watt Emotiva Fusion Flex to power the rear Boston Acoustic M-350's. It works fine.

I agree completely with you, but you can put stereo first, which the Hint will serve perfectly, but you can also use it perfectly for HT. Its a win win all the way around.

For some reason, there is this impression that components can serve for both 2-channel stereo an HT. I don't happen to agree with these thoughts.

That is the whole key to using a processor as a front end to decode surround sound. You can use retain and all of your 2-channel gear as your have already been using it, without making any changes or compromises at all.

Now I have a Crown class "D" amplifier in a 19" audio rack behind the TV, that is configured to run in bridged mono mode and can deliver 1,600-Watts to a 15" horn loaded commercial sub. The LFE output of the processor powers the Crown XTi-2000. The sub is rated to produce a SPL of 133 dB continuous program material.

I can still use this sub with the stereo. I run a full range line output from the iNova into one of the unused inputs on the processor. I have the processor set to use the bass management feature and to send all signals at and below 40-Hz. to the LFE output of the processor. Simple and effective. A powerful sub for both stereo and HT. I can turn off the power to the Crown amp by wireless remote control.

I have the Crown's volume set to maximum and control the volume of the subwoofer by the remote control on the processor. I have been doing this for years.



Even though the iNova has an analog HT bypass switch on one of the channels, I don't use it. I find that I would rather treat the processor as a separate regular input that I can control with the iNova's volume knob. Since I keep all of the analog volume controls close by where I sit, I prefer adjusting the front mains for stereo or HT with the analog control on the Peachtree. It takes no effort to move the volume of the mains up and down and can be accomplished is less time that it takes to pick up the remote for the processor.

 

The Adcom is fine. you don't need to use balanced outputs on your 205, it is not necessary and most home audio gear does not even have them, even very expensive gear uses RCA's.

Balanced connections are used primarily for commercial purposes for long interconnect runs, to keep down the noise level. In a commercial sound system, the power amps are located close to the speakers and there are long runs of line level signal's that are used to connect the preamp or mixing board to the power amps.

The Emotiva multi-channel amps are just fine and are an excellent value for the money. I have a 5-channel Emotiva amp sitting behind the TV to use as a spare, should I have any of the other channels fail, I have this amp in reserve.

 

Well...I can buy a used black Parasound Integrated (1st gen, not the latest, black to match my Oppo) for $1950 shipped from a reputable dealer. Could pick up both Emotiva machines listed above (surround processor and multichannel amp) new for another $1500. Or I could get the equivalent of the Emotivas used and save some cash. Thoughts? Some of the used multichannel amps I looked at have more power and are cheaper than the Parasound, and I don’t need some of the gizmos in that box, but...the wonderful reviews it gets are swaying me to spend the money.
I wonder if mixing and matching stuff is ok and they all play nice together.
I really appreciate the time people have put into their posts here so far. My best to you all.

 

It's not the wpc you should be looking at, it's the current (amperes) rating. When it comes to SDA's the higher, the better. The higher end Parasound amps and the Anthem fit that bill. Not to mention, they are more musical than anything else suggested here.

 

Listen to F1nut. You want a lot of current to drive your SDA's.

The Parasound Hint is an excellent integrated and the one on the FS forum is an excellent buy. It can serve as the central point of control of both your stereo and HT for many years to come. It might not match your Oppo, but it will be around long after the Oppo is gone and will likely be a better resale than the black.

This could be a very important piece of gear for your system. You would have to spend a lot more money to get better than these.

Yes, you can play an Emotiva processor and multi-channel amps, with the Parasound. If you don't want to go 4k, than you can buy a UMC-1 used for about $200-$275 on eBay. You can get their newer UMC-200, for around $300-$375 used on eBay. The 200 leaves the legacy connectors behind, that the UMC-1 had. Eirher would work for your purposes.

Emotiva Umc-1 preamp/processor



There is even a better deal on a UMC-200, right now. Emotiva UMC-200 Pre-amp Processor for $225, buy-it-now



The Emotive multi-channel amps are excellent values and can often be found on eBay.

There is a * EMOTIVA BASX A-500 5 CHANNEL AMPLIFIER * Help your AVR! being bid on now, with less than four hours remaining.




There is a nice XPA-3 being bid on. This is the good stuff.

 

Is the Parasound Halo Integrated high enough, do you think? I respect your opinion, especially on the SDA’s (and thank you for steering me to the CRS’s, btw!). Here’s the link: Model Halo Integrated « Parasound

 

Yes, that will do the job quite nicely.

 

You all have convinced me. I’ll order the Parasound later tonight. I’ll put a bit more thought into the 2 other pieces but I’ll likely buy used though EBay as SandAndGlass exemplified above.

 

Here is a discussion thread at Audiogon about using the 205 as a preamp. Some interesting debate about it, but a few folks swear you not only can do it but should. Interested in your all’s opinion about this:Using Oppo 205 instead of per amp processor | Audiogon Discussion Forum
Maybe I should buy a 3 to 5 multichannel amp for the center and surrounds, and try this out?

 

You could. Since you still need a multi-channel amp any, there is nothing lost in giving that a try and see how it works out for you. Doing this does not preclude buying a integrated or a dedicated preamp anytime in the future.

 

Thanks for getting that Hint off the sale page. Sick of seeing that guy's bump posts, lol. Honestly though, you're gonna love it. I was previously using my home theater setup for music also and the change to a dedicated, music focused integrated amp was startling. The pre-outs, dual subwoofer outputs, and analog high and low pass filters give you lots of flexibility also. I have zero regrets.

 

Recently, I attempted to use my 205 as a pre/pro combined with a Parasound Integrated (HINTO) as power for the mains and an Harmon Kardon Citation amp to power the center and rears. In order for this to work, you must switch the volume to variable and not fixed. I did not like the sound of 2-channel music as much as using the HINTO as an integrated with the 205 (I found the addition of the HINTO to be more musical), but because that combination requires the volume to be fixed, there wasn't an easy on-the-fly solution for me. My Yamaha AVR-x775 does not have multichannel analog inputs that would allow me to use the AVR in bypass mode for multichannel therefore use the 205's DAC. When my AVR dies, I will replace it with an AVR with multichannel analog inputs.

Your Yamaha HTR 6160 does have multichannel analog inputs, so I suggest you do not set your sights solely on using the 205 as a pre/pro but instead try it as a player.

To run it as a player but still use it's internal DAC, hook up the R/L using the dedicated RCA jacks on the rear of the 205 (the ones that are separate from the other RCA jacks) to one of the HINTO's free inputs (labeled "1" or "2"). Then run 5 RCA jacks on the multichannel outs on the 205 to the Yamaha's MULTI CH INPUTs and one pair of RCAs from the Yamaha's PRE OUT front to the HINTO's Theatre Bypass Amp Input (if you are running subs, somebody else can help with that, as I don't run subs). Then use the HT Bypass button on your HINTO to have the best of both worlds: 205 and HINTO combination using the Parasound to control it and the 205 with Yamaha's remote on Direct Mode (or not Direct Mode for the AVR's parametric EQ settings...you can have all of the worlds).

When you get more power for your surround channels, use the pre outs on the Yamaha for those channels as well, and your Yamaha will just be a preamp for surround and the HINTO will operate as either power for the mains or as the 2-channel integrated it is. You don't want to tire iron it in the kneecaps, as it is a really cool integrated amplifier.

You have a LOT of choices with the gear you have. If you are somebody who likes tinkering and trying all sorts of combinations, you are in luck!

 

I too am very happy with the Emo A-5175. I replaced their XPA-5 amp with this slightly smaller one for space issues. I can't hear a difference with this "downsized" model. Clean and strong.