Imaging driving me crazy!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SATLOS, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear...
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2024
  2. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    It's the Dynavector 10x5, which I've had re-tipped. I sold off the REGA Exact II.
     
  3. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I debated this and settled for modesty.
     
    Glmoneydawg and Rick58 like this.
  4. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Yeah, the Arcade Fire's "We" (up on the wall) has the same problem (on vinyl). Vocalists and snares off to the left, closer to above the turntable, rather than above the amp, which is dead center.

    Through Apple Music (via the DAC), they're centered.
     
    timind, Rick58 and jonwoody like this.
  5. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I've got some MONO records and an old test disc... Thanks for the recommendation.

    As for the OCD, I hear you... I've unfortunately trained my ears to a certain level of fidelity and can't regress.
     
    hakstone and Rick58 like this.
  6. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    I think that is represented by the overlap of his Venn diagram.
     
  7. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I can see that too, but it's odd that Apple Music doesn't have the same problem.
     
  8. lsipes1965

    lsipes1965 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ky
    First guess is channel imbalance in the cart. That or azimuth….
     
    gakerty and FLEMKE like this.
  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Time to update the ol' profile, then.

    What I do is I play a mono record that I record through Audacity on my PC and then compare channel volumes. My guess is your L channel is stronger than the R channel on your current setup which is what is causing the imbalance. For it to be that pronounced, I'd estimate you'd have to be off by a lot, maybe close to 3db.

    Doing this test would basically confirm there's an issue with your setup. That's when you pick up the phone and call a tech to perform a setup and confirm via his laptop that the channels are properly balanced. After that, if there's an instrument or vocal that is slightly to the left, that is because that's what's on the record.

    As for your listening position, I assumed what we're seeing is slightly distorted by angles, lighting, or the lens of the camera. A basic requirement would be a symmetrical distance on each side - otherwise, you're setting yourself up for failure, imaging-wise.
     
    Tim Lookingbill, Rick58 and SATLOS like this.
  10. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    The speakers are Gershman Acoustics SONOGRAMs. They're a small boutique manufacturer here in Ontario that only deal in the higher end these days. Got these used for a song and they're really nice and full range.
     
    33na3rd, DaveWin and Rick58 like this.
  11. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Thanks, time to bust out my copy of "Otis Blue" and a measuring tape! Think I have some MONO Hendrix around here somewhere, too. Good excuse for playing some awesome records!
     
  12. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    Good luck man! Let us know what you find.

    PS: My lovely wife got me a nice Frank Sinatra double album with some in mono, altho I presume it was cut with a stereo cutter? Being a new compilation album.

    In any case those tracks are dead center, and don’t change at all when I press the mono button on my preamp remote.
     
  13. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    I can say that imagining changes per vinyl. If especially different with CDs. I don't know if anything is wrong.
     
    ossicle2brain and DaveWin like this.
  14. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Got another cartridge to test out? Channel balance is a spec with carts. Coil voltage strength for each channel or something like that. The phono section too.
     
  15. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    This sounds like more busy-work for you, but since you thought to draw us a venn diagram to illustrate it, tells me you're serious.

    Any chance you can borrow a phono stage from somebody, maybe a local dealer? Hook the table into the stage, stage into an aux somewhere. Now take note of where the soundstage center seems to hover. Compare.
    It might just be the innards in your phono input.

    Of course even if a CD and an LP are using the same album master, it could be internal mismatching of what the amp is presenting. I suspect, as long as you at least come to a conclusion about where the issue is...it might just not bother you as much so long as you've located the difference.
     
  16. motorstereo

    motorstereo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ct.
    Do a battery test on the speakers to make sure you don't have a driver out of phase.
     
  17. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    I've actually had to do something similar with left/right off balance issues with music CD's listening on headphones and on my home system. I load the song in question in Audacity and pick a section of the song where center vocals are slightly to the left (measuring using Wave Stats). And funny enough your 3db off center is exactly what I boost on the right channel using a limiter to center vocals. Works perfect.

    Vinyl is not going to be that easy enough to fix I'ld imagine. Sounds like something electronic as others here more knowledgeable on the subject have indicated.

    My old '72 Sansui amp gives me left right off balances even with CD's to where I just use the L/R balance knob and crank it up a bit to compensate. Don't have vinyl, just CD's but I do have a bit of OCD about getting the vocals centered. It's just annoying especially when everything else sounds so good but the balance is off.
     
  18. KeithL

    KeithL Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Does your pre-amp have a volume pot or is volume digitally or resistor controlled? Is the off centre more pronounced at lower volumes? The balance of some pots is worse than others at low volume. When powered off give the volume knob a few rotations.
     
  19. John3655

    John3655 Infinite input

    Location:
    Hampshire UK.
    Oh it's obvious, the red circle is closest to your turntable, you're picking up some noise from the cartridge and it's just enough to move the image. You should take down the pictures, move the turntable out of the soundstage, change your socks to darker ones, upgrade everything, get a cat.
     
  20. DaveWin

    DaveWin Parasound fan boy extraordinaire.

    Location:
    USA
    They have that large soft dome mid-range driver that looks so pleasing.
     
  21. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    [​IMG]

    MONO SUCCESS!! I feel like such a dork, but it looks like it was just the speaker positioning... Good ol' measuring tape showed they were 11' 5" inches apart (measured from center of cabinets), while my listening position was closer to 10'.

    Adjusted their distance to 10' apart then toed them in appropriately and I'm getting a much clearer picture of Otis (& Jimmy) in the middle of the soundstage. Could probably still use a bit of further tweaking on the toe-in, etc. but I'll play with it.

    The cart could likely still use a good alignment, so I'll head to the local record shop here in Ottawa and ask around.
     
    33na3rd, Tlay, Strat-Mangler and 3 others like this.
  22. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Instructions unclear: turntable upside down, credit card maxed and my house smells like cat ****.
     
    chris8519, Strat-Mangler and John3655 like this.
  23. mkane77g

    mkane77g Happy Camper

    Location:
    Auburn, CA
    Sit up in the chair so you don’t listen to your toes.

    10’ a long ways
     
    bever70 likes this.
  24. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    All well and good, but this doesn’t explain why your digital source created a centered image with the prior set up :confused:
     
  25. SATLOS

    SATLOS Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Yeah, that's puzzling... Maybe something to do with the analog rig being more revealing than an Apple Lossles (not Hi-Res lossless) mix?

    I've switched back to stereo (the new St. Vincent just came out today!!!) and she's centered.
     
    33na3rd and timind like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine