New Mobile Fidelity Frank Sinatra Gold CD's

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Jamison1955, Sep 7, 2008.

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  1. Kayaker

    Kayaker Senior Member

    Location:
    New Joisey Now
    I called and complained and they gave me a single use code for 40% off a CD - which I am going to use to reorder the Sinatra disc. Hope this one gets to me.
     
  2. Roscoe

    Roscoe Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I received my "Only The Lonely" CD from MusicDirect today, and I have to say that I am extremely satisfied with this disc.

    Finding a mono Only The Lonely LP in decent shape has been next to impossible, and I have never been terribly satisfied with the sound on any of the LPs I have purchased over the years. Every one had a pinched midrangey sound, not to mention terrible surface noise likely due to groove damage.

    It's so nice hearing these great mono versions clear as a bell. And the difference from the stereo version is dramatic...the mono version has a much more intimate feel that fits these ultra-depressing songs like a glove.

    To be picky, the EQ could have backed off the high end a bit. But that's a very minor criticism. This one is a winner all the way!

    Please MoFi, more Capitol era Sinatra! Would love for In The Wee Small Hours and Songs For Swingin' Lovers to get the MoFi treatment.
     
  3. Roscoe

    Roscoe Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I just noticed the recording dates on the inside gatefold of Only The Lonely. If these dates are correct, then on May 29, 1958 Sinatra cut the following:
    "Only The Lonely"
    "Angel Eyes"
    "Willow Weep For Me"
    "Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out To Dry"
    "Ebb Tide"
    "Spring Is Here"

    Geez, how's that for a session?!
     
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It was actually TWO sessions. See here: Thursday, May 29, 1958 (1st session) and (2nd session).
     
  5. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Larry's take on "Only The Lonely" is far from horrible, Bob Norberg's version is another story, but just buy the new MONO version from MoFi, especially when it becomes available on vinyl and you'll rethink the Walsh disc, trust me!

    Chris C
     
  6. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    Just picked up the MOFI OtL, and it's amazing. What a difference it makes to hear it this way!
     
  7. bdvogel

    bdvogel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    The MFSL reissue of "Only The Lonely" has also reached the German shores now - and very happily, it meets all the big expectations. This disc is nothing short of sensational, for sure the most important Sinatra release in a long time. In my opinion, it's an absolute must have - forget about the recent sampling sound atrocities by FSE, this is the one 2008 Sinatra CD to get! :edthumbs::edthumbs::edthumbs::edthumbs:

    Best,
    Bernhard.
     
  8. bdvogel

    bdvogel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    Also, I agree with Roscoe - May 29, 1958 certainly marks one of the (if not THE one) most amazing session date in Sinatra history. The high level of concentration Sinatra managed to uphold from 2pm until shortly before midnight, with just an early dinner break in-between, is simply astounding!

    Especially because he even encountered a "problem" during the evening session, when having waxed "Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out To Dry" in the fourth and the title song "Only The Lonely" in the ninth take, he embarked on Billy Strayhorn's "Lush Life" (and the surviving takes show that his approach was very ambitious) but decided to "put it aside for about a year" - then without as much as a minute's delay, he went for "Willow Weep For Me" and nailed it grandly almost from the start (there's a surviving outtake practically as great as the final master, which was take 4 in this case). (BTW, much nonsense has been written/can be read about Sinatra "abandoning the session and storming out of the studio" after the "Lush Life" attempt - all of which is bogus, he proceeded immediately with "Willow").

    In short, I think there might be no better example for how outstanding Frank Sinatra's vocal artistry was at the time, his peak period at Capitol, than what took place on May 29, 1958, and the timeless recordings it resulted in.

    There are but very few sessions in his career at which Sinatra recorded as many songs on one single day as on May 29, 1958 - one of them was July 8, 1944 (at the KFWB Studio Theatre in Hollywood), which was a recording session for V-disc release (conducted by Axel Stordahl), and also started in the early afternoon, stretching to midnight, with a 3-hr-early dinner break in between. This session resulted in "All The Things You Are", "All Of Me", "Nancy (With The Laughing Face)", "Mighty Lak'A Rose", "Falling In Love With Love", "The Cradle Song" and "I'll Follow My Secret Heart", plus an (hitherto officially unreleased) version of "If Loveliness Were Music".

    Best,
    Bernhard.
     
  9. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    A couple questions for Bernhard, Bob, Martin, or anyone else with any opinion.

    The "Lush Life" session. Are you all of the opinion that OTL was to be 13 songs? Based on the session data, can we make an accurate guess as to what might have been included, last minute, since "Lush Life" went unfinished? "Ebb Tide" perhaps? Obviously it was not unusual for FS to produce an LP greater than the standard 12 songs. I know this has been asked before. Curious to hear your opinions, however.

    As Bernhard notes, Sinatra recorded "Willow" after putting aside "Lush Life." Union contracts aside, is there anything to confirm that FS at least attempted "Sleep Warm", following the "Lush Life" breakdown as the session tapes indicate? The booth clearly suggests he try "Sleep Warm," although all documentation has that tune being recorded at a later date.

    Thoughts, fellows?
     
  10. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco

    When was "Where or When" recorded? Wasn't it during the "Only the Lonely" sessions?
     
  11. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    September 11, 1958. Right after "Sleep Warm," according to the files.

    Sinatra plays around with it a little at first: "We threw up on each other in the same old way..."
     
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I have no idea regarding the "other" songs put on the Capitol CD's as bonus tracks, recorded in September. I'd imagine that if Frank really wanted "Sleep Warm" on the album, not only would he have put it on there :), but he probably would have recorded it at one of the June sessions. I highly doubt ONLY THE LONELY would have ever had more than 12 songs - it was already (I think) 53 minutes with the 12 songs. Even for a mono LP, that's getting a bit long. Also, all of Frank's "real" Capitol albums from WHERE ARE YOU forward (plus CLOSE TO YOU from '56, also fairly long, IIRC) did not exceed 12 songs. Even CLOSE TO YOU, going backwards a bit, was also 12 songs. It's fairly long - IIRC, about 50 minutes. It had 15 songs recorded for it, but only 12 were used. One was an inside joke of sorts, but the other two were serious, and were good songs...

    I've wondered how it was decided which 2 songs to remove for the stereo LP? I find it strange that for side 2 that "Spring Is Here" was chosen. I would have removed "Ebb Tide" - it the only song on the album that breaks mood a bit.

    I really don't "hear" "Sleep Warm" on that album. It's very nice, but it's a bit too sweet for it. "Where or When" sort of fits a bit better, but I hear it more as an album closer, especially in the way this version was done. Nothing could follow "One For My Baby", so... Also, the arrangement on it is not really like the rest of the album.

    BTW - My "Willow Weep For Me" acetate, which has the released take on it, has take 6 noted on the label, after the master #.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Although "Lush Life" was attempted at the OTL session, it doesn't seem to me to fit the theme. Remember that "Monique" (the song from Kings Go Forth) was also recorded that day (at the afternoon session), so just being on the recording schedule does not necessarily imply being intended for the album.

    WRT "Sleep Warm," here's what do Nascimento Silva has to say in his discography:

    (That last sentence was meant to explain the absence of a separate recording session number. It explains why so many sources have considered the two sessions to be one. In actuality, it was not "just an early dinner break in-between" as Bernhard suggested; there was a 3½-hour break, from 5 to 8:30 P.M., between the two three-hour sessions.)

    I don't believe "Sleep Warm" was intended for the album. Again, it just doesn't seem to fit the theme or the mood. It was a newly-written song, based on the closing tag from Sinatra's then-current TV show, and it was not recorded until more than three months later. IMO, it was meant only for the way it was released: as a single (flip side of "Mr. Success" which was recorded at the same time).
     
  14. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    my two gold cd's arrived yesterday and they are winners. Never heard either of these so sweetly done on cd before. I'm thrilled with both of them and hope and pray they continue to reissue these....
     
  15. bdvogel

    bdvogel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    ***Are you all of the opinion that OTL was to be 13 songs? Based on the session data, can we make an accurate guess as to what might have been included, last minute, since "Lush Life" went unfinished? "Ebb Tide" perhaps? Obviously it was not unusual for FS to produce an LP greater than the standard 12 songs. ****

    Jordan, for the reasons Martin has already mentioned, I, too, don't think that OTL would have been 13 songs in the end. It seems more likely to me, as was the case with "Close To You", that Sinatra and his team first wanted to have "a pool of masters" so to speak before making the final choices as to which songs to include on the final album, and in which story-telling sequence.

    Both "Lush Life" and "Ebb-Tide" (but not "Sleep Warm" or "Where Or When") are already listed in the first draft of possible songs to record for the album project, that was taken down by Nelson Riddle on a piece of paper (possibly in late April 1958), Sinatra had already attempted to record "Ebb Tide" at the first OTL session on May 5, 1958 (Capitol master E-18954), along with "Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out To Dry" (E-18953) and "Angel Eyes" (E-18955) before FS decided to scrap all recordings from that session and have Riddle re-work all the arrangements.

    As for the proceedings on the evening oo May 29, 1958 - no, there are no indications whatsoever that anything of "Sleep Warm" was tried or considered following the decision to abandon "Lush Life" and before the orchestra starts preparing for "Willow" - there's about 2 minutes or so of inaudible general chatter by FS and musicians (not included on any CD release of the session) preceeding the first orchestral sounds for "Willow", but from the piano (probably Miller's) there are a few bars of the "Willow" refrain already.

    The one and only indication for "Sleep Warm" has been that overwriting in the session files, as described by Nascimento Silva in his discography (thanks to Bob for reproducing that annotation) and others who have worked with the original file sheets.

    With a bit of twinkle in the eye - my theory (and it certainly isn't more than that) is that *maybe*, that remark was not at all referring to a song of that title, but simply intended to say "sleep warm!", aka "bury it!" towards "Lush Life", following Sinatra's remark "Put it aside for about a year" which he intonated/phrased in a rather ironic way, I think what he actually might have wanted to say was "Let's forget about this quickly"... following the troubles he had experienced when trying the difficult bridge from verse to chorus (at "Life is lonely again"). If that should be the case, the remark from the booth would have been along the same aim.

    ***It explains why so many sources have considered the two sessions to be one. In actuality, it was not "just an early dinner break in-between" as Bernhard suggested; there was a 3½-hour break, from 5 to 8:30 P.M., between the two three-hour sessions***

    Bob, I tend to think that Capitol not assigning a new session number for the evening part of May 29's recording programme might indicate that it was basically considered still to be the "same" session as in the afternoon, possibly also because there were no changes in musicians (with very few exceptions), microphone settings, studio location, booth personnel, engineers, tape rolls and settings, conductor, attending "gaffers" etc., everything was just left in the place where it was. So perhaps the fitting term would be "double session". Anyway, the results from that day & night were stunning.

    ***I've wondered how it was decided which 2 songs to remove for the stereo LP? I find it strange that for side 2 that "Spring Is Here" was chosen. I would have removed "Ebb Tide" - it the only song on the album that breaks mood a bit.***

    Martin, I'd find it difficult to remove any of the 12 songs on the original release from the "story-line" so to speak... the second part of the story (i.e., Side B of the original album) does contain a few brighter accents throughout, and the "come-and-gone-message" from "Ebb-Tide" I think is well reflected also in "Gone With The Wind", also musically some accents of the arrangement are quite similar (the building up, and then retreating, of the strings), only that the lyrical metaphors are different ("just like a flame/love burned brightly" representing the 'tide' so to speak, "...then became/an empty smoke ring that has gone with the wind" picking up the 'ebb' so to speak). Both songs play with the balance of hope and loneliness, as does "Spring Is Here" which has Sinatra finish in a slightly (if but very subtle) more optimistic mood.

    Anyway, I agree it must have been the most crucifying of all decisions being (technically, so to speak) "forced" to drop two songs from such a coherent album. Would be interesting to know to what extent Sinatra himself took part in that decision.

    Best,
    Bernhard.
     
  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    One of the musician exceptions is significant, however: The early session sheet includes Harry Sukman on piano, as well as Bill Miller. It has been stated by many sources (notably Will Friedwald) that Sukman played piano on the title song. However, "Only The Lonely" was not recorded until the evening session (or half-session, if you will), and Sukman is not listed then. I believe it is Bill Miller who plays that marvelous piano intro on "Only The Lonely," which was the second track recorded in the evening.

    I have theorized that Sukman (who was best known for his movie work) was present only for the recording of "Monique"—the Elmer Bernstein tune from the film Kings Go Forth. That was the first song cut in the afternoon, and it certainly was not intended for the album. Also included only in the early session report was an accordionist, Dominic Frontiere, who played on "Monique" only, of course. (One of the rare times an accordion appears in the instrument list for a Sinatra session.) Except for the loss of Sukman and Frontiere, the only other personnel change for the night session was the addition of a trumpet (Pete Candoli).

    I agree, it was an especially magic day (among many magic days) in the history of Frank Sinatra recording sessions.
     
  17. bdvogel

    bdvogel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    Yes Bob, that are my thoughts as well (i.e. that Sukman only played on "Monique", while Miller took all other piano parts for the subsequent OTL recordings). Should he have remained for the OTL title song, I think he would have been paid for it as well, i.e. listed in the personnel records.

    However, Sukman's daughter Susan McCray (who has done some beautiful features about her father recently and also wrote a fine book that's very recommendable, check out www.harryspiano.com), in a mailing list conversation earlier this year, also claimed that her dad was part of the recording of "Only The Lonely". She didn't come quite clear with, though, whether her late father expressively told her that way, or whether she was also but referring to Friedwald (and the topic wasn't pursued because she seemed to be a bit annoyed that people would suggest there was no OTL-Sukman-connection).

    Maybe Sukman, while not playing on OTL, had a say in Nelson Riddle's *arranging* that piano introduction to the song "Only The Lonely"? (And maybe others)? Since Riddle wasn't available to be present at the May 29 session, maybe it was decided to have Sukman around for some of the OTL songs as well?)

    If that's so, he would have played a similar role as with Sinatra's instrumental recordings for the 1962 Reprise album "Sinatra Conducts Music from Pictures and Plays", where he did take part in the arrangements (as described by McCray in detail), while the session sheets (for the June 20/21, 1962 session, from 3pm to 0:45am, with a very short dinner break :shh:;) from 6.45 to 8pm) contribute all arrangements to Leo Shuken and Jack Hayes, with Harry Sukman being listed only as pianist alongside Bill Miller (for all songs).

    Best,
    Bernhard.
     
    Bob F likes this.
  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Great info Bernhard & Bob :thumbsup:
     
  19. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I just noticed this, Martin. Several sources available to me (including Silva and Rednour) claim it's Take 4. Another (O'Brien & Sayers) has it as Take 2. Perhaps someone who has the session tapes can comment on the multiple discrepancies. Bernhard?
     
  20. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    Just ordered my copy of Only today using the coupon I got from spun.com. Look ing forward to receiving it.
     
  21. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    GOT THEM. And Only the Lonely is essential.

    Britton and MFSL have done a fantastic job. I wasn't a huge fan of them before. Didn't like their artwork and a good portion of their titles. When they got back into business, you could tell they were feeling things out. They're doing MUCH better now.

    I was skeptical about their Little Richard release but I got it and was shocked by how much better it was. The REAL original master tapes, not the crappy dubs or whatever the hell they used for Georgia Peach. Had high expectations for Only the Lonely and they delivered.

    Nice N Easy's interesting. The old Capitol CD is definitely clearer and I like the fact that it has less echo. But it sounds kind of clinical. Definitely a digital age remix. MFSL sounds like they did too much to the mix (the original mixing engineers not MFSL) but it definitely sounds like a vintage mix. After a few listens, I have to give it the edge just because it sounds warmer and I guess more pleasant than the Capitol CD even though it doesn't have the same clarity. I wish they went with the drier mono mix Steve mentioned but this isn't bad.
     
  22. chrswlkrc

    chrswlkrc New Member

    Location:
    east coast
    Completely agree. Their last batch of new titles have been jaw-dropping. I haven't recieved "Only the Lonely" yet, but I'm going to get it soon. "Nice n' Easy" was better than my UK EMI version.
     
  23. bdvogel

    bdvogel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    Perhaps it's because there are several instrumental-part-rehearsals (between 0'10 and 0'30 length, although more than two) before "take 1" for "Willow" is announced from the booth... anyway, a summarized analysis based on the session tape copy I have listened to is as follows:

    WILLOW WEEP FOR ME (Master # assigned by Capitol: E19258)

    --- chatter & instrumental parts/bridge rehearsals (about 2'45 all together, with interruptions possibly because tape was stopped rolling)

    ---"take 1": part-take, runs about 0'46 then out
    ---chatter
    ---"take 2": COMPLETE (runs about 4'48) (Note: This take remains officially unreleased, but has wound up on some unofficial releases)
    ---chatter
    ---"take 3": false start (stops at about 0'12)
    ---"take 4": COMPLETE (runs about 4'50) (matches with released version)
    ---FS says: "Let's here that!"
    (end of tape)

    From that, it seems clear to me that the released version is take 4. (which matches with the released version, but differs from take 2 in a number of phrasings and nuances)

    I understand that the take numbers provided on the acetates are erraneous in quite a number of cases (stretching from the 40s into the 80s) - one Sinatra discographer from England once said "first rule: never trust what's written on a label of a record or acetate" (in terms of numbers).

    In some cases, wrongly assigned take numbers were based on mistakes made during the actual session, i.e., the booth made a wrong counting, double-counting a take (often happened when a lot of short part-takes followed each other). As a result, a wrong number was announced before the final take, and sometimes that number made it into the official records.

    A good example for that would be Sinatra's recording of "It Gets Lonely Early" (made for "September Of My Years" on April 22, 1965). The song has a verse ("Is it two o'clock, or ten o'clock? It doesn't matter much..."), and Sinatra planned to do the entire song including the verse. However, as the session tapes reveal, he had some trouble getting the verse right, and did a total of 11 takes, all of which he had to stop because of a flaw in his singing of the verse.

    Now after one of these part-takes, take 6, the producers make a counting mistake and announce "take 6" again for the next take, which in fact was take 7. As a result, when Sinatra in his 12th take finally completed the song (including the verse and the entire refrain), this complete take was mistakenly counted as "take 11".

    And the story goes on: After take 12 (counted as 11), Sinatra decided to try the song again but now drop the entire verse and do the refrain only. There is some small debate about that, and musicians arrange their sheet music accordingly - and during that period, the booth AGAIN loses count of the count :)winkgrin:), so that when Sinatra and the orchestra start what actually is take 13 (starting with the refrain immediately), the announcement *again* is "take 11"... take 13 (miscounted 11) was a false start again, after which Sinatra in take 14 (miscounted 12) finally laid down a complete recording (refrain only) and decided to have that one released on the album.

    So in short: What was released is take 14, but all official listings (and based on them, some discographies whose authors didn't check back with the original session tapes) of master & take-number still claim it's "take 12".

    And to make it more complicated: In 1995, for the Reprise "suitcase" release (Sinatra's "Complete Reprise Studio Recordings"), they decided to restore the verse of "It Gets Lonely Early" to the recording, using the released version (take 14 miscounted 12) and adding the verse from the complete take 12 (miscounted 11) on top of it...

    Sorry for elaborating this so lengthy, but I think it's quite an interesting detail, and might help to illustrate that a discographer's work can be very, very tricky in detail, even when everything seems to be easy...

    There are at least two dozen more examples for such "session miscountings" from Sinatra sessions. This is one of the reasons why preserving the entire and intact session tapes is of such essential importance for exact documentation of Sinatra recording sessions, and why not caring for them is so, well, careless. Unfortunately, Capitol got rid of most of its entire-session tapes a long time ago - that's why e.g. also for the majority of tracks on "Only The Lonely", the exact take number can no longer be ascertained. In case of the May 29 session, happily, most of them survive (if only through copies "made secretly" before Capitol decided to throw them away).

    OK I'll stop it here! ;)

    Best,
    Bernhard.
     
  24. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Takes 2+4=6 ;)

    Wonder what actually caused the 6 to be on my acetate then? Anyway, thanks!
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Not that I care mind you, but if it's United you're talking about it could be mix #6.
     
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