1968 Yardbirds sessions to see release?!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by YardByrd, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. YardByrd

    YardByrd Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Yardbird drummer Jim McCarty mentions possibility of band's April 1968 studio session seeing legitimate release:

    Q&A: Jim McCarty Discusses the Yardbirds’ Legacy | »

    It came out as a quasi-legal CD about 16 years ago, i.e. "Cumular Limit" before being withdrawn. It had the blessings of Keith Relf's widow, April, as well as McCarty and Chris Dreja.

    The songs were recorded in NYC a few days after their Anderson Theater show (released in 1971 as "Live Yardbirds! Featuring Jimmy Page"), but were not released at time. Bill Wyman makes mention of Jimmy Page playing them to him in his autobigraphy, saying the sounded nothing like the Yardbirds of the past and how excited Page was by the songs.

    Fast forward to circa 2000 or a a while earlier. Bob Irwin unearthed the multitracks and did a quick mix that was never intended for commercial release (ownership of the original sessions has been debated for years now; they had just left Mickie Most and hooked up with producer Manny Kellem - if you don't know his resume, goggle it! Even more ill-suited to the Yardies than Most was... Sheesh - so, RAK, Epic and Columbia as well as Page and the other surviving Yardies all can make some sort of claim)... Said rough mixes then came out as "Cumular Limit"... All that is except for "Knowing That I'm Losing You," which is a nascent version of "Tangerine"... It was supposed to be included but the record company and McCarty & Dreja got cold feet at the last moment, knowing of Page's interest in said song...

    In a 2012 "Rolling Stone" interview, Page made mention of how he had been listening to the Anderson Theater tapes (which Epic returned to him in the late '70s) and how he wanted to remix them (without overdubbed cheers)... So, one can dream of the Anderson show and final NYC sessions coming out!
     
  2. GodBlessTinyTim

    GodBlessTinyTim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    That would be great! If the Circular Limit material sees proper release, next I'd hope for Live Yardbirds Featuring Jimmy Page.
     
  3. ash1

    ash1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    bristol uk
    I didn't realise Cumular Limit was withdrawn ! Knowing That I'm Losing You turns up fairly easily. I would like to see a good release of the Anderson Theatre tapes.
    After their brilliant run of singles up to Happenings, the Yardbirds completely lost their way as far as i'm concerned. Good experience for Page but Most was a dreadful choice to produce them.
    I'd rather someone tried to sort out the Gomelsky tapes that were supposedly under dispute in Paris. Rumour has it that he may well have had a lot more interesting Yardbirds stuff from the Clapton / Beck era (and you never know, maybe that lost Stones Pretty Thing ??).
    I live in hope that a decent quality "World War 3" Beck/Page Yardbirds concert performance will turn up.
     
  4. Ern

    Ern Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Would love to hear a stereo mix of Think About It'.
    Great song!
     
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  5. YardByrd

    YardByrd Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    More info please on the lost Stones Pretty Thing you refer to... not sure I know that.

    Page himself has mentioned a Beck/Page Fillmore '66 performance that a fan had recorded. Said fan played it for him. Page said it was fantastic... one would guess that means the performance, not the fidelity...

    The one piece of Gomelsky arcana I want to hear is the RCA recordings with Hassinger engineering... must sound great (he always made engineered good recordings although I never did get why his production with the Grateful Dead and Electric Prunes was so thin and weedy)... they did "I'm A Man" at RCA... would love to hear it especially to compare it to the Chess version they did... wonder if the arrangement is different, longer etc.
     
  6. ash1

    ash1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    bristol uk
    I'd like to hear that Fillmore one too !
    From Felix Aeppli re Pretty Thing

    630420A 20th April: Morden, R.G. Jones Studios.
    Producer: Giorgio Gomelsky. Sound engineer: Ronald Godfrey Jones Jr..
    - I'm Allright (Ellas McDaniel) -unconfirmed
    - Pretty Thing I (Willie Dixon) -unverified
    Note: Recording of a soundtrack for the unreleased Giorgio Gomelsky-
    film about the London Rhythm & Blues-scene.

    630421A 21st April: Richmond, Crawdaddy Club, Station Hotel
    - I'm Allright (Ellas McDaniel)
    - Pretty Thing (Willie Dixon)
    Note: Shooting of the unreleased and unverified Giorgio Gomelsky-film about
    the London Rhythm & Blues-scene.

    I believe it's widely accepted that they recorded Pretty Thing that was then either mimed to or played in the film soundtrack. The film is missing. Could be a red herring but there appears to be sufficient circumstantial evidence for it having once existed and the Stones contribution being Pretty Thing.
     
  7. swandown

    swandown Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Wyman's biography does not confirm that Page played him the songs from the April sessions. Here is the excerpt from Wyman's book:

    "In Olympic studios to attend a session for The End on 22 June, Jimmy Page came in and we chatted. He invited me to the dubbing room, where he played me three or four tracks he'd done with the Yardbirds. They sounded so powerful, a completely new style for them. He mentioned the group was splitting up and tht he might form a new group and use these tracks. Two months later he formed Led Zeppelin, with Peter Grant as their manager. These tracks became part of their debut album."

    Obviously, nothing from the April 1968 sessions ended up on Led Zeppelin's debut album! And as much as I like the tracks from those sessions, I would not call any of them "powerful".

    Based on Wyman's description, I believe that Page actually showed him early versions of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You," "Black Mountain Side" and the middle section of "Dazed And Confused", which were all known to have been rehearsed/demoed by Page prior to forming Led Zeppelin.
     
  8. YardByrd

    YardByrd Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Page has mentioned a few times since 2012 that he wants to remix the last session and the Anderson Theater show. Jim McCarty said on Facebook yesterday that he has heard the new remixs of both and that they sound great.
     
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  9. I've got a legit silver-disc of Cumular Limit, and it's a heck of a good disc.

    Best thing on it, IMHO, is the live version of "Happenings Ten Years Times Ago" - which I think is FAR superior over the original studio version.
     
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  10. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Location:
    Russia
  11. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I would certainly be in for this. I have the Cumular Limit set which I thoroughly enjoy, but I imagine this would be better.
     
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  12. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Location:
    Russia
    1968 session on this was sourced from bad cassette copies, not original tapes. What Page will do with Knowing That I'm Losing You??
     
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  13. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    As long as they get rid of those bullfighting crowd overdubs, I'm in!
     
  14. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I guess we have to wait and find out to what extent (if any) Page is involved in this project. He has mentioned wanting to remix this concert before.

    Someone commented on that post asking Jim McCarty if the bullfight noises would still be there to which he replied "no- thank goodness."
     
  15. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Location:
    Russia
    There's only one way to release this tapes - get Page permission and got tapes from him (first)! No Page = No Release. Yardbirds only owns 66 master tapes for Roger The Engineer and Happening Ten Years Time Ago 7'
     
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  16. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    The funny thing is that I've listened so much to the LP over the years that I am so used to hearing those bullfighting noises and can anticipate exactly where they occur. I'm like Pavlov's dog: I start to hear the bullfighting noises and I know that there will be a scorching Page solo coming up in 3 seconds... ;)
     
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  17. melkor_morgoth

    melkor_morgoth Well-Known Member

    For which -- "Knowing That I'm Losing You"? The studio tracks on Cumular Limit sound great.
     
  18. YardByrd

    YardByrd Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Page is involved. The three remaining Yardbirds from that lineup and Relf's widow, April, have been in negotiations since roughly 2001 over all this material (Anderson and final studio session). Page mentioned in Dec. 2012 issue of Rolling Stone he was wanting to remix the Anderson show. Page, Dreja &McCarty finally came to an agreement. Page has had possession of the Anderson show since the 70s (Epic "returned tapes, lacquers and parts to client") and that would include the original tapes sans overdubbed cheers etc. McCarty confirmed to me that the new mixes do not have the cheers. As for the final studio session, "Cumular Limit" was taken off a cassette that had only rough mixes according to Bob Irwin at Sundazed. The new mixes are off the actual master tapes. This stuff will be released in 2017.
     
  19. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for the extra info.
     
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  20. Ern

    Ern Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Great news!
     
  21. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Little Britain
    About time!
     
  22. 32XD Japan1

    32XD Japan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Lets not compress it to death Mr. Page.
     
  23. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    In anticipation of this release, I'd like to pose a few questions for discussion:

    1. Obviously, the release date. Hopefully it will come out sooner rather than later, maybe they'll officially announce it on the 49th anniversary of the concert (March 30th).
    2. What label will this set come out on? While the original was an Epic release, I don't think they've had the rights to any Yardbirds material since the 80's. My guess is, with Page involved, it would probably come out on Rhino, as the Ultimate! set did a few years back. No idea who owns the rights to this particular release.
    3. What studio content will be included? We obviously know the stuff that was on Cumular Limit plus "Knowing That I'm Losing You," but is there any stuff we don't know about?
    4. Who else is working with on this with Page?

    Ultimately, I can't remember the last time I've been this excited about a reissue. Any new release of the Page-era Yardbirds is welcome in my book.
     
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  24. rockclassics

    rockclassics Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    I would suggest John Davis for the mastering project. He did a decent job on the Led Zeppelin remasters.
     
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  25. RockRoom

    RockRoom Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Upstate NY

    I concur hardily. Hopefully there are some additional audio suprises. I have to think Rhino would be ones to release this, if Page is involved as stated above.
     

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