1968 Yardbirds sessions to see release?!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by YardByrd, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    You know some wiseguy Millennial Artist/Band is going to put bullfighting sounds on his next album after hearing about this. I would.
     
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  2. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Or even better: Make a documentary film about bullfighting, and include the Yardbirds' music as the soundtrack.

    And call the film: Mister You're A Better Bull Than I... ;)
     
  3. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Does anyone know what the source was for the Mooreland cd? I think the sound is pretty good if a bit bright on the cd. Jimmy's guitar is plenty present. Haven't heard the old lp in eons so I wonder how it compares.

    One weird thing about the cd is the beginning of Dazed is pretty bad sounding, like they had to use an alternate source for a few seconds (and not a good one). Then it goes back to a nice full sound.

    Very interested to see how they work a new version.
     
  4. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Pretty sure they spliced in bits from an audience tape to make the concert more complete, since the original release chopped off the beginning of "Dazed." Not sure what their source was for the actual album. I can't imagine that they got access to the original master tape, but it doesn't seem to sound like a needle drop either so not sure what's going on there.
     
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  5. "Bull Kept A-Chargin'"
    "Gored and Confused"
    "My Baby Bull"
    "Over Under Sideways Down" is already a good title
     
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  6. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Those are my favorite part!
     
  7. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Just going by the haircuts and wardrobe, this is not from the Anderson Theater in '68. Probably from the Village Theater one year prior.
     
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  8. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    it's definitely the Village Theater from August 1967. Still photos from that show match this footage - both the clothing and the stage decor etc. BTW, this footage is from the same night Jake Holmes opened for them, where they heard "Dazed & Confused" for the first time.
     
  9. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    It is a needle drop. Greg Russo (who worked with Russ Garrett at Mooreland and wrote the liner notes under another name) confirmed this a few years back on a Yardbirds forum.
     
  10. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    This story was written seven years back, but take note of the first comment... this fellow says he has the silent footage... why it showed up on youtube years later tagged as Anderson is odd... this guy definitely says it's Village... Concerts Vol. 6: Jimmy Page and The Yardbirds ยป
     
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  11. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I stand corrected. That makes the most sense in this scenario anyway
     
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  12. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Unsurprised. Thanks! Still a neat vid, of course.
     
  13. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    It's probably a bad idea, but since Jimmy is back into Yardbirds archives,
    I wonder if he ever thought going out with them for a string of shows?
     
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  14. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    There are rumors of a lost Yardbirds session with Beck & Page (possibly recorded for "Blow Up"), but there's little evidence to support the rumor. I don't think there are any other 1968 outtakes in circulation, although the recent appearance of a fragment of "Think About It" (on the Glimpses box) gives me some hope. Here's the summary of the April 1968 sessions:

    April 3, 1968, Columbia Studios, NY (producer: Manny Kellem; engineer: Roy Halee)
    - Untitled instrumental (later reworked as "Avron Knows") [take 1]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 1]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 2]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 3]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 4]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 5]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 6]
    - Taking A Hold On Me [take 7/MASTER, released on Cumular Limit] -- this may be a combination of previous takes

    Note: Keith Relf may not have been present. It's also worth noting that this was the same date that Donovan's "Hurdy Gurdy Man" was recorded in London.

    April 4, 1968, Columbia Studios, NY (producer: Manny Kellem; engineer: Roy Halee)
    - Spanish Blood [take 1]
    - Spanish Blood [take 2]
    - Spanish Blood [take 3]
    - Spanish Blood [take 4]
    - Spanish Blood [take 5]
    - Spanish Blood [take 6/MASTER, released on Cumular Limit]
    - Knowing That I'm Losing You [take 1]
    - Knowing That I'm Losing You [take 2]
    - Knowing That I'm Losing You [take 3]
    - Knowing That I'm Losing You [take 4/MASTER]

    April 5, 1968, Columbia Studios, NY (producer: Manny Kellem; engineer: Roy Halee)
    - Avron Knows [take 1]
    - Avron Knows [take 2]
    - Avron Knows [take 3]
    - Avron Knows [take 4]
    - Avron Knows [take 5/MASTER, released on Cumular Limit]
    - My Baby [take 1]
    - My Baby [take 2/MASTER]
    - My Baby [take 3]
    - My Baby [take 4]
    - My Baby [take 5, released on Cumular Limit]


    Perhaps some of these alternate versions will surface on the new CD?
     
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  15. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Every configuration of the band (well, except the Beck-Page era) has one song I can't stomach. For me, My Baby is the Page era turkey... Of all the songs they coulda covered or recorded, why that one? Just imagine "I'm Waiting for the Man" in the studio. Sigh.
     
  16. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    By the way, closer examination of McCarty's Facebook post finds him suggesting this release MIGHT be a box set. Makes for a lot of extras... Or extra speculation.
     
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  17. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    This might have been asked earlier, but I didn't see a definitive answer:

    Does Page completely own these tapes---meaning both the live Anderson Theater show(s) and the 1968 studio recordings? Or does some other entity own them but Page (and/or the other Yardbird members/estates) have to approve them for release?
     
  18. RockDude4492

    RockDude4492 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I would imagine Page at least has partial control over the tapes, as he was able to a) stop Epic from pressing further copies of the record and b) demand the tapes be returned to him. I'm pretty sure Epic obliged to both demands. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  19. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Does this just apply to the live Anderson Theater tapes, or also the 1968 studio sessions too? On the Rhino 2001 Yardbirds Ultimate CD set, the few 1968 tracks (like Goodnight Sweet Josephine and Think It Over) are credited as "courtesy of EMI Records".

    But, yes, Page was able to halt the Epic release (or halt it after it was initially made available in 1971).
     
  20. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    According to Greg Russo's Yardbirds biography, Epic returned the Anderson "tapes, lacquers and parts" to client, i.e. Page in the late '70s. After McCarty, Dreja and Relf's widow, April, gave Mooreland their blessing to release the show (from vinyl needle drop, not masters) in 2000, Page's lawyers squashed it. At that point, all parties began a negotiation that obviously has taken 15 years to come to fruition (I'm sure the EU's 50-years "publish or become public domain" law hastened the release!)... Ditto the final NYC studio session. Same parties blessed their release as "Cumular Limit" and same party squashed it. No idea who owns that now. Bob Irwin of Sundazed is the one who found those tapes in NYC. He made a rough mix-down that was not intended for release. It was on cassette and found its way to the label that issued it as "Cumular Limit"... That was 16 years ago. I'm sure once it showed up on radar, there was some jockeying for ownership and possession.
     
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  21. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA

    Better: "I'm Not a Young Man Anymore". That one may not have been
    well known then, however. But it would've fit their repetroire well, what
    with, "Mr You're a Better Man Than I" and "I'm a Man".

    Here's a version by Dean and Britta done to Lou's screen test by Warhol:


     
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  22. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Some of the tracks on Little Games weren't quite ready for prime time either. Mickie Most, ugh..
     
  23. Dondy

    Dondy Forumaniac

    I've never heard of two sets. I have a picture of the poster for the show and it only announces one show.
    Most unfortunately, the promotor obvuiously thought it was a bright idea to have TWO support acts so the band had to cut down their set to 45 min., Hence, the album gives us the entire show, i.e. the 2000 Mooreland Recs. does as it has a few bits and pieces (with the odd bad note, a false start and the like) reinstated from the unofficially circulating (and complete) audience recording of the show that were originally edited out by Epic for their 1971 album.

    Yardbirds ahoy!
    Th:)mas
     
  24. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I was gonna ask about this. I've had a vinyl rip for years, but I noticed the Mooreland Street issue is a bit longer. (not counting the soundcheck bits of course).

    Also, the soundcheck bits sound very similar in quality to the recording of Led Zeppelin's first recording from Gonzaga University. Just an odd little coincidence.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  25. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The evidence indicates that Page possesses the physical tapes for both the Anderson Theater show and the CBS studio sessions. (He got the Anderson tapes when he sued Epic in 1975. And he must have the CBS tapes based on Jim McCarty's Facebook post which indicates that they've been remixed.)

    But I don't think Page "owns" the tapes. Ownership would be shared with the other members of The Yardbirds, and Page would not be able to unilaterally release the recordings without approval from the group. (Or maybe he just needs a majority vote? Not sure.)

    The Mooreland Street CD and the Cumular Limit CD were officially released based on the labels getting approval from 3/4 of the group (McCarty, Dreja, and Relf's widow). The labels must have concluded that that the law was on their side (or that the risk of Page filing a lawsuit was low). Of course, Page ultimately quashed both CDs, but I seem to remember that the Cumular Limit CD was allowed to stay in print until the initial pressing had sold out. (I bought my copy in 2001.)
     
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