2.2 setups

Depends on the Subwoofer. Mine is a downfiring type, so the bass will radiate around the Sub and does not sound better closer to the wall. That's why I placed them in front of each speaker stand-closer to my listening position.

 

My pre has no sub outs, so I am running stereo subs high level off the back of each speaker. They are placed beside each speaker.

 

All subs radiate around the sub, it doesn't have to be a downfiring type to do that.

Simply put, if you need more bass, put the sub/speaker closer to a wall. If you need less bass, move away from wall. Again, it makes a huge difference just moving a sub or speaker a small distance closer or away from a wall. In my case, less than two feet.

 

Since you decided to start this thread, does that mean you are not fully satisfied and you are looking into other options or are you so happy with the setup, you felt the need to share?

I was going to post this exact same question and I am glad you beat me too it. I have been obsessed with getting my rear speakers to sound as good as my mains. So much so, I have been using the rears as mains and began some tweaking. Adding a couple small sealed subs and moving them a bit, has made a big difference but I am not quite there yet...but getting closer.

Since you started this thread I have realized not many people do the 2.2 setups for whatever reason. After reading the "best full range speakers under $2000" thread, it got me thinking that a 2.2 setup could be a better way to get full range from the main speakers. One sub and two satellites have never done much for me compared to my full range 3 ways. Spoiler alert, there aren't any full range speakers new under $2000...

 

I misunderstood your question, yes my pre has two sets of outputs. One set goes to amp the other is for the subs.

 

Considering very few preamps have this feature, you should have pointed that out in your first post...

 

Looking back on your other post, this one makes no sense...

 

Ok maybe we should start over? What exactly do you want to know?

 

I only wanted to know exactly how you had your 2.2 system setup (re-read the op). That is all. You made that much more difficult than it had to be by mentioning your "sub outs" and then finally mentioning the fact that you are actually using additional preamp outs. That is totally different and why it was confusing.

 

Actually, its been getting better and better each day. As the subs are breaking in, I am noticing more bass at lower volume levels. Right now, I am quite happy with the way it sounds. I really just posted in case there was any alternatives that I could try that may be even better. I don't know how true it is, but I have read that using low level input results in better sound than high level. Not like I really have that choice though.

 

There is at least one person that swears by high level outputs when connecting subs but I don't remember the thread. Which subs are you using? They are powered, correct? They have both high and low level inputs, correct?

I did a quick search and came to the conclusion that you can connect a splitter to your preouts if you have them, then run the subs low level inputs. You may lose a bit of the signal because of the change in impedance but not enough to worry about splitting only one time. Wish there was more feedback here on the subject, but it seems like a 2.2 direction isn't very common for whatever reason. Please do some more research before adding anything to the line outs because I am only going from second hand information.

 

They are Totem Kin subs, 8" sealed box and powered, they have both high and low level inputs. I don't lave any pre outs either as I am running naim gear and its all DIN.

 

I've been running a 2.2 setup for a little over a year in my 10 x 13 room in the basement. I started out with everything on the short wall but have ended up with everything on the long wall. This gives me maximum distance from side and front walls.

My preamp has two sets of line outs also. I've used high-level outputs before. Musically, I can't hear any difference in line vs high level outs BUT I have noticed I need more sub gain with the latter, still plenty of room to go on the dial.

I've heard one person mention they prefer high level outputs to ensure the exact "same" signal gets to both mains and subs; I can see the logic here. For instance, in my setup I go from a tube preamp to a SS amp. So, I suppose, the subs are getting a "tube" signal while my mains get a "tube/solid state" signal. I've no intention to change how mine are set, just figured I'd throw it out there for discussion. I also like a little bit of overlap, I cross my subs over at 40 Hz and my mains have decent output to 35 Hz so I get that "slam" I love from Rock/Metal. My mains are not high-passed, they run full range.

I'm using extremely thrifty subs in context with everything else in my system. One of them (BIC F-12s) cost less than the 5AR4 tube sitting in my preamp and together combined both subs were cheaper than my speaker cables (and those were DIY!). So, not only am I a proponent of 2.2, I also don't think that in a nearly full-range system to begin with, where the subs just give that last octave of depth to the entire presentation, they needn't be very expensive to do very well either.

 

What a timely thread, I just spent my whole weekend reworking my Vandersteen 2wqs running in stereo and made some significant improvements to my listening experience. These run inline but in an odd sort of way that is hard to fully explain. I positioned them on the sides of my room, where a coffee table might go on each side of my central couch. Then I ran REW software to measure the room acoustics while I changed various settings. My main goal was to get a somewhat flat bottom end but with some authority when volume was low. It took a lot of trial and error but it sounds amazing now, I'm sure some adjustments will be needed later but I had the whole setup wrong from day one. Anyway good luck with your quest for stereo subs, you need to treat your room with super chunks if you really want to do it right and I'd get some kind of acoustical measurement software and a microphone so you can objectively know where your room modes come into play when dialing it in.

 

I had actually looked into trying them out on either side of my sweet spot as I read that can be a good location, but my room doesn't really allow it. I should temporarily try it just for kicks one day. Right now they are on the front wall beside each speaker. I am toying with putting them behind each speaker to see how it sounds as well.

 

Here is a pic of my "home made portable soffit super chunks"...made from ~$200 of materials from a big box hardware store. 3 bags of Rockwool, 2x1, burlap from a local hobby store (you can get online coupons for this and get a really good price for this stuff), staple gun, nail gun (not needed but helps), wood screws and some wood glue...oh and lots of beer and time! I made six of these things and was able to test placing them all over my room. One of them doesn't dot he trick, you have to have many to really hear the difference.

Sorry they are sideways...grrr too much effort to rotate them with the free tools online.

Also, play with the subwoofer polarity and phase...have someone change it while you are in the listening position...you cannot tell when standing next to your sub and changing these settings...you must be in the listening position. Or test before and after with room acoustic gear...I used a Surface Pro, REW with a $20 mic from Amazon. Amazon.com: Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for iPhone, iPad Tablet and Android: Musical Instruments »

Is it super high quality? No...BUT it does the trick on the cheap...you really just want to find your null spots...this thing will do it.

Ok I have given away all my trade secrets....

PS you CANNOT own any cats with this setup...that is a given that I already own Vandersteens...but these look like giant scratching posts to kittens...

 

All three of my outdoor systems use stereo subs. They are hooked up via a crossover directly after the mixer (preamp). The subs are either under the rest of the speakers, or beside them.

Indoors, the front channels of my system use a combined channel sub located right behind the listening chair. The rears use stereo subs located below each surround speaker. Again, hookup is via crossovers right after the preamp. See this post in another thread with further details.

I usually don't respond to posts about "2.1" or "2.2", since I don't like the terminology, but himey prodded me into joining the discussion.

 

by the way, using the subs in stereo with a high crossover frequency and pulling them slightly into the room with give you lower end imaging that is to die for. The whole point of stereo subs is to set the crossover higher than you might normally do so that the upper mid bass gets some definition from the subs. If you crossover too low, then you miss the point of a stereo sub and you might as well mix the channels into one and be done with it.

 

Ok, I give up...I thought I did a lot of work on my lower end sound...but you my friend win! Good lord you went through some extreme methods to get your sound to work correct. Kudos!

 

Don't give up. This is not a competition. There are no winners and losers. Keep at it, and do your best effort, your personal rewards are greatest that way.

 

Thanks for the encouragement! I am amazed how much better the Vandersteen setup can sound with room adjustments. My next step will be treating my ceiling, I am sure the long flat surface could use some type of acoustic reflective treatment.

 

I have speakers with built-in powered subs and crossovers. Assuming those count, I would say I am running a 2.2 setup and I agree with others who've said it creates a very nice, balanced sound.

 

How high we talking? I have them set at 50hz right now. I found anything higher resulted in boom, however, If I pulled them out as you mentioned, that would probably go away.

 

Yeah, that's the idea...if you go up to 100hz and pull them out into the room, that boom should go away and you will benefit from stereo subs. In your configuration I doubt you will benefit much from the stereo aspect of using your subs...I think you would be better off running them both with each channel. There really isn't benefit running them in stereo with that level of cutoff unless the slope is really really low (like 3db).

 

I haven't mentioned yet, a couple weeks ago I added a sub to my center channel. A very simple setup because I have two center outs on my pre/pro. Simply added a Reckhorn crossover from the center channel line out to my my amp. The sub is a sealed cabinet a little over one cubic foot. The driver is a 10 inch quality woofer. Woofer is centered near the front wall. Center speaker is on a stand in front of sub and stands a bit taller than the woofer so it doesn't block the sound. I set the Reckhorn to it's highest crossover point, 150hz, and it sounds amazing. My center is two 5 1/4 mids and 1 inch dome tweeter in a smallish cabinet (Vifa drivers). Without the sub, it obviously doesn't go very low. The dude who built it put in a cap so it will go loud without blowing anything. The difference was night and day. I only run my 5.1 system with all speakers set to large so my mains can get the full range sound (my pre/pro won't mix and match large and small speakers) and now my center is keeping up with my 3 way mains in all the frequencies! There was always a slight hole in the sound, especially listening to 5.1 TV shows with a lot going on in the center channel like voices. It now sounds rich and full like my mains when listening to stereo sources.

Crossing over at 150 hz can make certain subs sound boomy. Not this one. I think the small sealed enclosure is the key. My guess is a larger ported box with the same driver would sound boomier? This sub likes that low midrange and brings out some frequencies that the center can't touch. As I mentioned, voices just sound so much more rich and full, night and day compared to before.

My rears are floorstanding 2 ways with same 1" dome and two 6 1/2 Vifa drivers in a ported cabinet. They go much lower than my center because of the larger cabinet and a bit larger midrange drivers. Compared to my 3 way mains with larger cabinet and 10 inch woofer, they don't go that low. After the great results adding a sub to the center, I knew I needed to do the same to the rears.

The guy who built all my speakers, built a passive 2 way crossover for a friend of mine. It was designed for him to add a dual subwoofer to his satellites for his bedroom. Simple speaker level in and outs to both the subs and to the satellites. He gave it to me a year ago when he moved. It was just sitting in my closet collecting dust with all my other abandoned equipment I had some sealed 8 inch Infinities lying around. Added the passive crossover to the rears and added the sealed 8 inchers to the crossover. They now go lower and sound much better. Not as good as my mains, not as low, but much better.

I am not stopping there. I have matching 10 inch Vifa woofers, the exact same ones that are in my 3 way main speakers and I am looking for cabinets for them. Going to match up the same size port and cabinet volume. Add them to my rears. I will start off with the same passive crossover but I want to try out ALL the other options, mainly an active crossover. I may try to find a couple more Reckhorns but I am leaving my options open...