2-channel sound from DTS audio discs?

Question:
Can I play dts surround audio CD's on my DVD player but get 2-channel stereo sound?...I think the answer is "yes" but I believe there is a caveat: the DVD player MUST have an onboard dts decoder - am I right? I do recall reading somewhere that this was not always the case so now I'm really confused.

The reasons for the question are 1) I would to buy the Police "Every Breath You Take - The Classics" dts disc becuase it has a different version of one of their biggest hits (De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da), re-recorded in 1986, and not available on any other disc. 2) I do not have any surround sound amplification capabilites and would like at least to be able to hear the tracks in stereo.

My Pioneer DVD-V player is hooked up to a 2-channel stereo hi-fi amplifer via the phono sockets (same as a CD player would be). The DVD player can only output a dts signal - it has no onboard decoder - so that being case would I be right in saying that my DVD player would NOT be able to play this dts disc in 2-channel stereo in the same way that I can play CD's or DVD's?

Some help and clarification on this would be greatly appreciated!


Cheers

Kipper

 

Good question, Kipper. With the setup you described, I'd say no, if only because, one way or another, you have to have some kind of DTS decoding--from your receiver, amp/pre-amp, or an outboard decoder hooked to separate pieces of equipment to realize a 5.1 listening area. Without the decoding, you'll hear nothing, as far as I know. Thing is, since my deck has built-in decoders, when I put in a disc, it will automatically default to DTS in a regular CD player. That the player may have DTS capacity is, to my mind(could be wrong--anyone who wants to pitch in, please do!)beside the point: it's your centerpiece gear that needs the decoding, and you still need the 5.1 channels. If you don't have that, at best--and it ain't good--you'd have the front 2 channels and nothing else. I don't think you can fold down DTS as you can DD 5.1(could be wrong).The DTS audio discs are 4.0, minimum, 5.1, max. Regular DVDs with DTS capacity always seem to have a Dolby Digital 5.1(or stereo)mix, so if you have a stereo DVD player and system it will either mixdown to 2.0--still not what you want, really, with some things, that much info compressed into two speakers--or you can go into the menu and access the stereo track with your remote. This is what somebody who buys DVD-Audio discs can do with certain titles: go to low-rez stereo, so you still get something reasonable. To fold down a DD 5.1 low-rez to stereo pretty much not only throws the mix out of whack, but unlike Quad vinyl--which was supposed to be mix-balanced so you could get a reasonable stereo playback without anything hinky or too out of place--DD5.1 to 2.0 will sound, I presume, odd, and frankly not something I'd be eager to hear.

Hope other Forum members chime in. I've had 5.1 for so many years now I've gotten so used to navigating multi-channel I keep forgetting there are some here who don't have that capability. I'm pretty sure my explanation is basically correct, but depending on the system setup I might be off in a few places. FWIW, DTS multi is usually pretty darn good, usually a tad better in dynamic range than DD 5.1, and some films(GLADIATOR comes to mind)have such an impressive DTS multi track that to get the 'theater experience' back(or as close as you can with most TV's)you really need the multi-channel setup. And because, as you note with the Police DTS, there are either unique mixes or different takes every now and then, a good idea to upgrade. There are some decent(if not spectacular)receivers and mini-systems(yech...)with DTS and DD 5.1, for only a few hundred bucks(of course you'll have to have morespeakers, but ya know, what can ya do). If you can spring it, a wise investment that will bring rewards very quickly.

Good luck!

ED

 

As Ed notes, you do have to have a dts decoder somewhere in your system in order to play this disc. It sounds like you don't have a decoder, so you would not be able to play the disc. As far as I know, a dts disc played back without proper decoding just sounds like noise.

I do believe that dts 5.1 can be downmixed into 2 channels. As as test, I just put on this very track, isolated something only in one of the rear channels and then forced my preamp into 2 channel mode. The sound from the rear channel was blended into the front speaker. (I don't know if this is true, but I have read that downmixing dts isn't part of its spec the way it is in DD; perhaps the ability to downmix in dts isn't universal or is implemented differently in different processors.)

 

Yes, without the decoding, it will sound like white noise, end to end. Don't try playing a DTS CD without proper playback. This means you.

 

My Sony SACD/DVD-V/CD player has a dts decoder built in. It has both multichannel and two-channel "stereo" outputs. If you use the stereo outputs it will produce a perfectly acceptable two-channel downmix (as long as you remember to change one of the default settings in the setup, that tries to turn it into Dolby Surround or something).

But you do need a dts decoder. I don't know if there is any two-channel equipment that has one.

Yes, playing a DTS disk without a decoder results in *very loud* noise.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. I do find this Home Cinema/multichannel thing a bit confusing at time!

Just so I get this 100% clear in my mind, in order to play a dts audio disc (or DVD for that matter) it sounds like I need some sort of AV processor capable of processing the dts output from my DVD player? Correct?

My Arcam stereo amplifier has the ability to allow an AV processor to be connected via the AV phono inputs - this allows the stereo amp to drive the front two speakers whilst an offboard AV processor handles the other channels (rears, centre, etc). The amp has an AV processor switch to 'fix' the gain of the front channels for use with external multichannel processors, providing for switching between dedicated stereo and multi-channel AV (the processor would then control the volume of all speakers). A neat feature: IF I do decide to upgrade to a multichannel setup in the future I'd like to keep using my Arcam amp for regular stereo hi-fi duties.

But then, how would I connect this AV processor up to my DVD player? Presumably using a digital output cable from the DVD player to the AV processor? (my Pioneer DVD player has both coax and optical ouputs) but if I want stereo sound from the DVD player through the system (or if the disc only has a stereo soundtrack) how does that work?

I currently have the DVD player connected to the amp via analog interconnects. Would I still need that connection or would the AV processor handle the 'downmixing' to 2-channel? (i.e. do I connect the stereo analog interconnects to an input on the AV processor instead of the stereo amp?) And what's the reason for having 6 analog outputs on DVD players with in-built Dolby Digital/dts decoders????? surely the digital outputs are used for DD/dts output?

Boy am I more confused about all of this than I first thought

 

I know there are good FAQs out there, but I don't have a URL handy.

In short:

If you get a DD/dts equipped processor in the future, you can run a digital connection from your dvd player (either coax or optical) to the processor to decode both DD and dts tracks. That processor would also be able to convert the stereo PCM tracks, so you wouldn't need to use the 2-channel analog connections anymore UNLESS YOU WANT TO USE THE D/A CONVERTERS IN YOUR DVD PLAYER. You would just need to connect the output of the processor into your amp.

As to the multichannel analog outputs on a dvd player, they need to be used on SACD and dvd-a players because those players do not send hi-rez signals via the digital out. They can also be used if you choose to handle the processing/decoding inside the player instead of an external processor. If you are only using the dvd player as a transport, then you would only need to connect one digital audio connection (and whatever video out(s) you are using, of course).

Hope this helps. Maybe someone else will be able to point you to a detailed FAQ re home theater.

 

My Denon 3300 receiver has a "DTS Stereo" setting that appears to combine the surround signals into the fronts. The Moody Blues SEVENTH SOJOURN, which I've been listening to for 30 years, doesn't sound like anything's missing when I play the DTS disc in this mode.

 

Have heard the Police stuff is coming on SACD, you might want to wait.
I have a Joe Cocker DTS of Night Calls that WILL NOT play on my Sony DVS-500 sacd/dvd machine, the machine has NO trouble with the other 5 or 6 DTS discs I own, and the disc plays fine on a DVD-A machine I tried. Anyone else encounter such trouble? Pat.

 

Thanks guys. So it would seem I that I would need to use a DD/dts-compatible AV processor in conjunction with my hi-fi stereo amplifier (and more speakers of course) to get DD or dts sound from DVD's - I would use this as opposed to splashing out $$$$ on a full-blown surround amp/receiver.

Why would I need one when I can already drive the front pair with the stereo amp? Basically, as far as I can see I don't - just an AV processor right? My understanding (limited!) is that multi-channel amps/receivers are not as good at doing 2-channel stereo music as a 2-channel hi-fi stereo amp is so I'd still have high-quality 2-ch stereo sound from my Arcam amp when playing vinyl or CD's.

The 6 analog interconnect outputs for multichannel SACD/DVD-A on a 'combi' player makes sense - ah, now I understand...thanks for the explanation!!!

Right. So far so good. BUT...

What I don't still really understand though is what is the real benefit of having an on-board DD/dts decoder on a DVD player? Surely a key function of a surround amp/receiver is to decode the DD/dts signals from the DVD player? My DVD player has no on-board decoder but surely that would be taken care of by an external AV processor I assume that a surround amp/receiver has the DD/dts decoding capability anyway, am I right or wrong here?

I did find a pretty good FAQ at dvdreview.com but it doesn't cover the DD/dts stuff in lots of detail. Your info & help is much appreciated though! I understand the concept of multichannel and what all the symbols mean (!) - it's just all the intricacies of how you connect it up and what you can and can't do (and why you would and wouldn't do certain things!) that gets me a little muddled - to say the least!

Thanks again...

Kipper

 

A surround receiver or preamp/processor definitely has at least a DD decoder, if not dts as well. That being said, the "benefit" of having a DD decoder in a machine is precisely for people like you (and me when I bought my first dvd player): I had no decoder, having "stereo only" equipment. While the dvd player didn't enable me to get surround, obviously, the onboard decoder did allow me to watch and listen to dvd's in stereo. Without a decoder in the player I would have heard nothing (and without an onboard decoder you wouldn't be able to enjoy your dvd's at the present time unless you like watching silent movies!).

 

Yes, correct. You need to be able to prpcess the DTS encoding.

Arcam's processor loop is basically a tape loop that comes after the volume pot. This means that, when the processor loop is engaged, the Arcam becomes a unity-gain power amp. All of the control, including volume, will then be with the external processor/receiver.

The advantage of this is that, basically, AV amps suck compared to a good hi-fi amp when playing music. With the Arcam you get the best of both worlds - great music and, at the flick of a switch, easy surround/home theatre.

One caveat though: your processor/AV receiver needs to have pre-outs for at least the front two channels, as this is how the signal gets back into the Arcam

Use a digital cable (coax or optical, doesn't really matter) from the DVD player to the receiver, for sound, plus whatever video format (composite, s-video, component video) you're using for video.

But keep the stereo analog connection between the DVD player and Arcam. That way, you can use your system in exactly the same way as you're doing now. And get the Arcam amp sound.

Yeah, AV is confusing.

 

It is for me Michael

Thanks for adding some further clarification here.

I have the Pioneer DVD player connected to the Arcam stereo amp via the TV as my Panasonic set has a set of 'monitor outs' which means the sound of the VCR and DVD - both connected via SCARTS to the TV - are connected to the amp with one interconnect cable. These RCA sockets on the TV provide a pass-through of the TV's amp circuitry - which is really handy if I'm watching a DVD or TV and simultaneously recording a broadcast on the VCR because I still get the stereo sound of the source. I tried a 'direct' interconnect connection from the DVD player to the Arcam and it didn't sound any different.

Early next year I will be adding a sub to the stereo system, then the AV receiver and speakers. The AV receivers I've looked at (both Yamaha and Denon models) allow connection to an external stereo or multi-channel amplifier so it looks like I've got that covered. Then, the inevitable - an upgrade of the DVD player to a 'universal' machine for all the new multi-channel DVD-A/SACD audio discs coming in 2003 (Dark Side, Pet Sounds, The Beatles back catalogue, etc)

Surely then the days of the dts audio disc are numbered? - the (albeit very slow at present) emergence of the multichannel DVD-A and SACD formats will inevitably mean dts discs will be consigned to history. I guess the one benefit at the moment of dts discs is true surround sound from a DVD-V player and an AV receiver - no need to upgrade your player to a DVD-A/SACD machine for true multi-channel music.

Looks like I'm slowly selling myself on the idea of DVD-A and SACD after all!

My Bank Manager might not be too amused though


Cheers

Kipper