2017: The Doors 50th Anniversary

Stull was considered as a replacement for Jim Morrison of The Doors, when Morrison moved to Paris in 1971. According to reports, Bill Siddons, who managed both The Wackers and The Doors, claimed Stull had been selected as Morrison's replacement.[6] Fact or rumor, Stull did join up with former Doors John Densmore and Robby Krieger to record the 1975 Butts Band album, "Hear and Now".[7
From wiki.

 

btw Butts Band 2 albums with john and robby are really good

 

The story has been around for years. Siddons says the band was working with Michael Stull before Morrison died in Paris; IIRC, Stull had been in another band that Siddons was involved with and made the connection. Regardless of what Densmore claims in his book regarding he and Morrison talking about working on a new album, it is well accepted that Morrison had no immediate plans to return to The Doors. No one knew when he was returning from Europe. The Doors wanted to continue working and Morrison was no longer committed. There was also a degree of animosity between Morrison and his band mates that had been in place since 1969.

Who knows what they would have happened? At some point, Morrison would have run out of money had he stayed exiled in Europe. He had no viable film career and his poetry generated no income. He likely would have needed to return to music in some fashion. That said, The Doors appear to have been plotting their next move without him. Would a reconciliation later in the 1970's been inevitable?

Also, the band rehearsed with Jess Roden circa 1972 with the idea of bringing him in as a lead vocalist after Full Circle did not reach expectations, but Ray left the band and ended that development. IIRC, Roden also played with the Butts Band at some point.

 

According to John, when Jim called him from Paris, he was already harboring the idea to return.

 

One of the post cards seem to imply Jim was running a bit low on cash.

IIRC, when he left for Paris they made Jim sign a one-way contract saying he would do any Doors related live work without the others.

 

He sent a post card to his attorney requesting additional funds (an odd way to communicate such a request). Based on what was revealed about his estate, he still had six figures which was a lot in the early 1970's, but clearly the funds would have dried up with continued inactivity.

There are a lot of different reports about what transpired between Morrison and his band mates during the 1971 period, and how the band was already moving on prior to Morrison's death. It is unfortunate that the band has been so evasive and secretive about this period.

 

Well, I am not familiar with the exact financial numbers of that time but it is clear the Doors needed income and those rents in Paris were quite a sum but I believe Jim would have been fine with the royalties in case Pam closes her boutique (pun intended). Another thing he lost his wallet while they were travelling around and that caused some mess and urgent need for money.

What happened in my view overall (reason of returning), was not because of financial reasons but because of self-realization. Poetry wasn't working either. He ain't got the muse. He couldn't escaped from the demons of home either. Noone ever could. Not surprising, after four months he began favouring the idea to get back. Then damn, he died.

Can you elaborate on that? Source?

 

I thought Paris/Pam's side projects/HWY/legal bills/bad habits would have chewed through his money. I think he wanted to stay over seas and the other 3 already moved on before he died.

I think I read the 1-way deal thing on the Door Forum or Freedom Man.

 

He certainly had expenditures, with HWY, Themis, and his legal bills likely being the biggest, but he also did not live large in terms of buying mansions and Italian sports cars. He lived in apartments and cheap motel rooms. Also, some of his expenses were likely covered with earnings from publishing, album sales and touring revenue streams. Morrison did not die a millionaire, but IIRC, his estate was valued at nearly half a million dollars at the time of his death, so he certainly would have been able to live comfortably for an extended period of time during the early 1970's. From the posted note, he makes it clear that he wants to stay in Europe indefinitely (and a possible pending prison sentence likely played a role as well).

It is unfortunate that the band has been unwilling to openly discuss this period with any detail and honesty over the years. It is an interesting part of their history. What lead to the rehearsals with Stull? After Morrison died, why did they decide against working with Stull and move forward as a trio? Did any of the Other Voices sessions take place prior to Morrison's death as speculated? Instead, they act as if everything was fine, that Morrison was simply on an extended trip in Paris, and they were all planning on working together as a quartet when he returned. Clearly that was not the case.

 

Didn't Pam have money trouble(she got the entire estate) before she died a couple years after Jim?

Were any of the OV/FC songs demo'd with Jim before he left?

I'm also curious about the 72 tour multitracks that have never surfaced.

 

I am afraid that lots of the stories about the doors "as we know them" are very very very much colored and flavored by the members of the band. "leaving of his spirit", "etc etc.", "Jim wants to come back phone call", ... I think in real honesty, by the time Jim left for Paris, they were glad he was gone, fed up with his behavior, went on the look out for a new singer and thought they could move on ... suddenly, Jim dies ... what better way to "cash" (wrong word/feeling ... more like rising up to the occasion/opportunity) on this by going further as the "band who lost its iconic singer, poor guys" ... everybody happy, no more Jim, cash/3 instead of 4, ...

Pretty cynical, but after 20 years of Doors stories that always get "photoshopped" by the members of the band, so it would appear how mythical they were ... makes you start to think ... Love the band, but impossible to write a biography, cause it would be "the bands most idealized/romanticized story of their career" ... instead of what really happened ... a pity ...

 

I have to respectfully disagree, anastasios. The first Butts Band album is OK to good; it had its moments. But, the second album, Hear And Now, is horrible, and for musicians the caliber of Robby Krieger and John Densmore, embarrassing.

The only place I've ever read the Michael Stull replacing Jim Morrison rumor is on this board. Are there any other sources out there that could shed some more light on this? I find it very hard to believe. There is no way Ray Manzarek - and/or even Robby Krieger - would ever fire Jim Morrison.

 

Morrison's estate was the subject of disputes and litigation and it took a couple of years for Pam to finally receive her inheritance. She died in '74.

Apparently some of the material from OV was written prior to Morrison leaving for Paris. Down On The Farm was allegedly presented to Morrison to sing during the LA Woman sessions and he declined. Some speculation suggests that three of the backing tracks were recorded during the LA Woman sessions (Down On The Farm, I'm Horny I'm Stoned, and Wandering Musician) because Jerry Scheff is credited with playing bass on those tracks, and he obviously played with The Doors during the LA Woman sessions. Scheff was performing with Elvis Presley from July - September 1971, so he could not have taken part of the bulk of the OV sessions, assuming they started in June (for what it is worth, wikipedia shows June - August as the recording dates for OV), however, there is always the possibility he attended Doors sessions in June or early July prior to his rehearsals with Elvis. Regardless, it seems likely that the OV project (and the songwriting) started prior to Morrison's death considering the album was released three months later in October 1971.

Haven't heard anything about the '72 tour tapes. Botnick says he recorded them, but it has never been verified if they were recovered or if they are still missing from the vaults. One would think that if live multitracked tapes from the '72 still existed, something from the tapes would have been included as a bonus on the OV/FC two-fer reissue from a couple of years ago.

 

From Bill Siddons.

Based on the rhetoric from Ray and Robby over the years, one would think they were all blood brothers, but their relationship with Morrison was fractured in 1971.

 

Has Bill Siddons ever gone public with this...information?

I absolutely believe that the other three Doors had reached a breaking point with Jim regarding live shows and touring. But, L.A. Woman was a hit album, "Love Her Madly" and "Riders On The Storm" charted fairly well, and, after Rothchild split, the four of them kind of united/unified, and from everything I've read, the L.A. Woman sessions were an overall positive experience for the group. It just seems odd that they would go from that "high" (self-producing possibly their best album, L.A. Woman) to firing the lead singer. That would've been career suicide.

 

Vince Treynor and Rothchild(thought 70% of the released LAW was boring) have made some interest comment about the last years.

I thought Pam(estates?) gave her blessing or got some kind of lump check.

4 parties own the Doors name.

 

I mean, cash from touring ... don't think Pam would get much of that, right ?

 

I think we need a detailed, unbiased documentary about Jim's four months in Paris - I would probably find that incredibly sad but also fascinating.

 

The one I want is all the US singles, original mixes, original edits.

 

Yes. Our own forum member rokritr, who edited what many consider the best book on Jim Morrison "Jim Morrison: Friends Gathered Together," interviewed Siddons years ago. Siddons said that Morrison told him that he was leaving the band and going to pursue other avenues for the foreseeable future. He stated that the band auditioned other singers to replace Morrison as the lead singer of The Doors while Morrison was alive in Paris.

A Hint About Morrison's Death?

Morrison left the U.S. in March of 1971, over a month before the album was released. While the "Love Her Madly" single was released a month before the album, Riders was not released as a single until June, just a month before Morrison's death. The success of the album was not instant; the legacy of it grew over time. Morrison very much viewed the band circa 1971 as a business partnership rather than a united band of brothers. Once he fulfilled the final album due under the Elektra contract, it does not appear he wanted to continue as a member of the band. The Doors knew his future with the band was questionable and that they could not rely on his commitment. It wasn't so much a "firing" because clearly they knew having Morrison in the band was best for its creative survival and overall business potential, but it does appear they had resigned themselves to the prospect of having to replace him.

 

I think they should've taken Jim's advice and focused on instrumentals it's amazing how bad those two albums are even Krieger could barely write anything half-decent.

*I always thought the biggest problem with The Soft Parade were the Krieger songs, there was better Morrison material that should've been worked on at the time.

 

This whole debate about the final months of Morrison's business dealings / life and behind the scenes shenanigans of The Doors is pretty fascinating stuff. There was a great article written last year in one of the UK music magazines about the post-Morrison Doors era and Michael Stull is mentioned there, but only as a potential replacement after Morrison's death. Clearly some members here have taken a more forensic approach to this period and what's being discussed is quite enlightening to say the least.

 

Jess Roden was the vocalist with The Butts Band.