2021's David Bowie box set 5 (Speculation Thread)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Slave2chaos, Jul 19, 2018.

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  1. Markyp

    Markyp Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louth
    Tin Machine set for Rsd as well as a stand alone RSD release for Sound and Vision live
     
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  2. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    3 Tours:
    Sound & Vision Tour
    Outside Tour
    Heathen Tour

    2 Officially Released Live Albums:
    1999-08-23 - VH1 Storytellers (Released 2009)
    2000-06-27 - BBC Radio Theatre (Released 2000 as a limited edition bonus disc for 'Bowie At The Beeb')
     
  3. HDManiac

    HDManiac Forum Resident

    The 90s Albums Are not Parlophone.
    Let‘s just speculate if BMG, Sony continue the series at all.
    If yes, I would prefer a seperate smaller Tin Machine Box in Spring 2019, then the next Bowie Set 1992-99 in October 2019.
     
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  4. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Of course every speculation is as valid as the next one but I guess the hint is the inclusion of years in these boxes titles. So if the upcoming one is subtitled "1983-88", the one after that can't possibly be "1993-19XX". So I guess the continuity will be top priority. Plus the fact that a possible "1989-1994" box would include one of Bowie's rarest (vinyl) albums, "Black Tie White Noise". Include this as double album and make that, that boxes exclusive - while the individual release is just a single disc - and voilà! And besides: If they can sell a box with various versions of "Never Let Me Down", a box containing Tin Machine should sell like hot cakes:evil:
     
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  5. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    True, the 90s albums were not *originally* on Parlophone, but I would assume that those albums would have reverted to Bowie/his estate by now, allowing the estate to license them to whoever they want (including Parlophone).

    However his last four albums were all on Columbia. While the first two may have reverted to the estate by now/soon, the last two almost certainly haven't, so its probably safe to say they won't be included in this boxset series.

    So its *possible* that this series may end with the Hours album (his last pre-Columbia album, or with the Reality album (if it and Heathen's original Columbia license has expired).
     
  6. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    However they cut it, I am in for the next one. I think I read that the current Parlophone deal expires at the end of 2019 and only goes through to Hours.

    If that is true, the last box in this series will surely exclude TM (that could get a separate set on another label as speculated upthread).

    That means though that the next box covers 1993-2000, with 5 studio albums and 4 tours. That seems too much.

    Well, all speculation at this point....
     
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  7. gomen ne

    gomen ne -

    Location:
    London
    :edthumbs:
    I was pretty depressed about something just now (financial bollx), but you just put a grin on mah face like the Cheshire Cat.

    [​IMG]

    Oh...but I wonder who the rights will be sold to next.
    Maybe Cherry Red!
    Is K-Tel still going? I would be good for th' outtakes. They could put 10 extra tracks on one LP no problem.
     
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  8. simon beck

    simon beck Forum Resident

    Tin Machine has to be a stand alone boxset - since the material causes such extreme cursing or praise by both media and fans - any other albums in a box with Tin Machine would be "forgotten" because of the back and forth. Some say the market is small - well if you can fill 2-3000 seaters on a world tour for 9 months there IS a market - even some 30 years later - and the first album did sell a million copies! And anything Bowie sung - marketed the right way with a great couple of singles like say "Goodbye Mr. Ed" and their version of "You've Been Around" should be able to move a few boxsets I'm sure!
    The band has their fans (I'm one of them) - and their haters - so it would be easier to market the material as Tin Machine - that even gives the band an upper hand when it comes to marketing the material - if for instance they want to provoke the haters and media they could do it with the title from their t-shirts back in the day "***k You I'm In Tin Machine" it could cause the same kind of reaction (lots of press) as their second album cover of 4 greek "naked" statues where the "genitalia" was airbrushed out because of US ratings- don't forget part of Tin Machine was to be provoking. Bowie did it partly to get his songwriting abilities a jolt but also to give his 80's superstardom the finger - "The (Sex) Pistols laid the golden eggs - others came to hatch them" from "the lyric of "Goodbye Mr. Ed" - Bowie made noisy music and his whole attitude was "I'm going to do EXACTLY what I want" and by doing so the band did indeed get a harsh reaction from part of the media and fanbase. On the other hand the second album does include really melodic and acoustic songs and pop abilities which actually got thrown aside partially (the music press was busy at the time of TM II release as there were some other releases the same month in 91' (Sep.): Nirvanas "Nevermind", Red Hot Chili Peppers "Blood Sugar Sex Magik" and both Guns N Roses "Use Your Illuison" albums) because of the two Hunt Sales sung numbers "Stateside" and "Sorry" which proved to be a dumb move by the band as far as the rest of the album kind of got swept aside - because of the outcry of another singer on a Bowie album! And the two songs in question does indeed not really belong with the rest of the album musically or otherwise... The smart move would have been to release those two on a limited 7" single under a joke moniker like "Texas Tin Machine feat. Hunt going Stateside" - it could be incl. as a bonus with the first 5000 vinyls. That would have been a funny and smart move and those songs could be "judged" on their own merit in a more humorous light as to which I'm sure they were meant in the first place - and I bet the negativity would have been far less - this is hindsight off course - but I bet those two songs are going to be smeared again - in all reviews and amongst Bowiefans - if they get a box release - which is truly annoying because the second album is really great and contains great songs and playing which many Bowie fans shy away from - I have bought some copies of the second album through the years and given to Bowie fans and they all love it - but either didn't have it or knew it existed! Hopefully we get an Unreleased disc or two with a boxset - even if it is against the rules of the other sets - that would definitely make the bunny ears stand up - even for the Tin Machine "haters"... and Reeves has said there is a whole albums worth of songs that no one has heard from the first sessions!
    And I dont think "Look Back In Anger" 88 version with Reeves should be on this boxset - it belongs with the other RYKO bonus tracks on a Outtakes boset in the future - the Sales brothers are not on it and it is a solo song! The re-recorded versions of "I Can't Read" and "Baby Universal" both meant for "Earthling" should also be on that Bowie outtakes set - HOPEFULLY coming in the (near)future!

    Tin Machine (2LP)
    Live 89 (2LP)
    Tin Machine 2 (LP)
    Oy Vey Baby (Live LP)
    Live 91-92 (Maybe called "Use Your Wallet" as was talked about back in 92') (2 LP)
    Unreleased Outtakes (2LP) (from 88-89) (most of the second album was recorded right after the first mini tour in '89) (Should incl. their version of "You've Been Around" and "Now" (Later re-recorded as the song "Outside").
    ReCall (B-sides, remixes ext. versions, radio sessions et al.) (2LP)
    Live at The Docks (DVD)
     
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  9. sore_and_crucified

    sore_and_crucified Forum Resident

    Location:
    North West, U.K
    Listening to this today I see no reason why the Tin Machine albums can’t/ wont be included in box set number 5. This compilation includes 5 Tin Machine tracks and indicates to me there are no issues with the licensing.

    I’m unsure how current they will take these sets however. Could the next one be the last, taking us to Heathen? Everything after this is readily available. Would a set with The Next Day and Blackstar sell when they are so recent? I wonder how they could ‘pad it out’. Food for thought.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. sore_and_crucified

    sore_and_crucified Forum Resident

    Location:
    North West, U.K
    On second thought, there is no way Tin Machine albums plus everything released solo would fit into one set. This would give us two sets to either Heathen or Reality. I can’t see The Next Day and Blackstar included.
     
  11. Disco Biscuits

    Disco Biscuits Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee WI
    Given the desire to finally include audio of all the major tours, I don't see how the next set could fit all the album's and tours from 1989-2002. Given how they have presented prior discs with at least one remixed album or redux or rerecording, I think it more likely 5 extends from 89-93 (4 studio albums, three tours, one unreleased), then set 6 goes from 94-97 (2 albums each of which have full companion remix and b-sides discs, 3-4 tours [95 with NIN, 96 summer had a very different setlist with "D.J." and other live firsts], his BBC live broadcast 50th Birthday concert with friends, the Earthling tour, plus the odd, and delightful, widely bootlegged acoustic set from 97] and the completed but unreleased Leon album), while a set 7 would extend 98-02 (2 studio albums, but each has been released with a bonus remix disc, the unreleased Toy album, and the unreleased "Dreamers" album, which Reeves Gabrels has stated morphed into hours, but was begun in 1998 with more tracks like the b-sides 1917, We All Go Through, etc, VH1 Story Tellers full set, hours '99 tour set [only live performances of some of the hours material], summer '00 tour with different set list, and the heathen tour '02). The final box could then extend '03-'16 including the Bowie at the Beeb 3cd to fill it out.
     
  12. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    Just to clarify things, both Black Tie White Noise and Buddha of Suburbia had their last reissues on EMI, so they would definitely be part of anything Parlophone puts out.
    Everything From Outside onwards has been released on Sony in their latest reissues. However, I am not sure how long the licenses for those last, and considering the
    "Bowie Box" of deluxe 2cds of Outside to Reality came out 10 years ago. It could be that those licenses will be up for renewal. From past experience, when license renewals come up for this material, they seem to get put into the main catalogue which has been with EMI and then Parlophone since the 90s.
     
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  13. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Hmm, the 2009 release of Storytellers has been bootlegged on vinyl, so it's probably a good candidate for a box set reissue. Maybe on a three-sided gatefold package, with the four DVD bonus songs on side three. Methinks however the Beeb bonus 'extra' disc may be held back for a Record Store Day release, as that was supposed to be a limited edition and the main part of the album was already reissued in a lavish (and quite good) 4xLP box

    I dunno what they'll do with Sound+Vision tour, there must be some archival Vision of it in the vault and hopefully the Sound is in salvagable form to bear a full and sympathetic remix with Belew's full involvement and approval -- again, one would hope that the resulting product is strong enough to exist as a standalone release, and not languish in a box set of catalogue releases where it's never existed in the catalogue before
     
  14. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    There is a concert from Japan at the Tokyo Dome, also Milton Keynes was broadcast on the radio in 1990.
     
  15. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    I've heard both those shows, the MK audio is alright but nothing special and the Japan footage is probably salvagable if they have the master reels still. If the original rushes of the screen backdrops exist to cut in as well, so much the better. But I'd still hope that a full multi-track remix with Belew at the controls is on the cards
     
  16. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    Out of the two, I would prefer Milton Keynes, because they were still playing Pretty Pink Rose at that point. The sad thing is, I find the Sound and Vision band really boring, it was way too stripped back and relied too much on the visuals. The band were not even visible, which led to a disconnect between them and Bowie and I think that bled over into the performances.
     
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  17. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    The first Tin Machine album tracks were (at the time of that boxset at least - now *might* be a different story) part of Bowie's licensing deal with the same label who released that box, so no additional licensing needed/no problem whatsoever with including tracks from that album on the 2003 S&V box.

    However the TMII tracks would have needed to be licensed, which is not a big hurdle, especially since cross-licensing a couple songs from one album for a compilation on a different label is hardly unusual, let alone in any way comparable to cross-licensing 2 complete albums (TMII and 'Oy Vey Baby') for release on a different record label, not to mention the many non-album tracks from that era of Tin Machine (the ReCall type stuff) not to mention any unreleased Tin Machine material they might want to include.

    Apples and oranges really.
     
  18. Kiss73

    Kiss73 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    That's my dream box set right there.........

    However - I suspect they will they slip in a mix in few (rare) Bowie solo items to ensure that people can't side step a Tin Machine box??. However as someone who loved Tin Machine, but not so much solo Bowie, the 2 albums the OP suggests (BTWN & Suburbia) are fairly decent inclusions if I had to be lumbered with them.
     
  19. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    To be honest, I hope they just roll Tin machine into the next box so we can, once and for all, draw a line under the "it wasn't a Bowie album" nonsense. Include it, confirm it's simply part of the canon, and move on. If they can putr three versions of Never Let Me Down in box 4, they can include Tin Machine.
     
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  20. Zongadude

    Zongadude Music is the best

    Location:
    France
    Neither do I.
    And the record company is not stupid: a box set credited to Tin Machine alone has much less chance to sell than a box set credited to David Bowie :)
     
  21. Disco Biscuits

    Disco Biscuits Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee WI
    If we interpret the Parlophone execs interview from earlier this year that 2018 marks "half-way", then there could be a total of 8 planned boxes (as the 4th, LTA, would have been largely completed by the time of the interview). If so, I speculate the following for boxes 7 and 8:

    7. Something in the Air '98-'02
    • "The Dreamers" {1 CD} (Reeves Gabrels has stated an album's worth of material was recorded in '88 that sounded like the "hours..." B-sides We All Go Through and 1917. These sessions then morphed into the Omikron video game soundtrack and the "hours..." album. If they released "The Gouster" this would be an amazing release)
    • "hours..." {1 CD}
    • "Hours" companion remix disc {1 CD}
    • Survive live '99 tour {2 CD}
    • VH1 Storytellers {1 CD full set}
    • Toy {1 CD}
    • Heathen {1 CD}
    • Heathen companion remix disc {1 CD}
    • Heathen in the City live '02 tour {2 CD}
    • Re:Call with other collaborations and soundtrack songs from this period ("nature boy" etc) {1 CD}
    RSD could include a live album from the summer '00 tour which featured a lot of rare tracks and was different than the brief '99 tour.

    8. I Can't Give Everything Away (03 to infinity)
    (Very little confidence in this)
    • Reality {1 CD}
    • Rebel Never Get Old bonus remix disc {1 CD}
    • A Reality Tour {2 CD} (+ Internet only bonus tracks they include)
    • The Next Day {1 CD}
    • The Next Day Extra {1 CD}
    • Blackstar {1 CD}
    • Early On expanded '63-'66 {2 CD}
    • David Bowie '67 {1 CD}
    • Unreleased Deram 2nd LP '67 {1 CD}
    • Bowie '67 bonus disc {1 CD}
    • Re:Call {2 CD} (No Plan EP, bonus tracks from '67-'70 from the 2 CD Space Oddity)
    RSD vinyl of the Bowie at the Beeb set.

    Of course, after this they could open the vaults with other rarities like the early '90s bonus tracks or Planned Accidents recordings.
     
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  22. NightGoatToCairo

    NightGoatToCairo Forum Resident

    Location:
    .
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Zach Johnson

    Zach Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Except they took off two of the best tracks on the album...
     
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  24. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    there are no best tracks on BTWN, only the least worst.
     
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  25. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    I disagree, I have always enjoyed Black Tie White Noise.
     
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