(3) Turntables, which one would you pick and why?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Nov 11, 2017.

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  1. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    This. And I'm a current Ultradeck and former Rega owner.
     
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  2. mr.datsun

    mr.datsun Incompletist

    Location:
    London
    The VPI is three times the price of the Rega (at least in the UK). I'd rather have a top-range VPI Scout 2 for looks alone. But as an, already souped-up, 90's Rega Planar 3 owner, I'd probably choose the RP8 because I like the Rega sound. Direct-drive Technics don't appeal.
     
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  3. The Technics SL-1200G. Most all adjustment can be performed without the use special tools and the cost associated with them. Cartridges can be changed out pretty quickly.

    I'd get a used SL-1210 off eBay, change out the arm with a Jelco arm, you're only in for about a grand and have a top notch table. Also there are so many 12xx's out there, repairs, parts and full replacements will be around for many years to come.
     
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  4. ashulman

    ashulman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Utica, NY
    I think rega has a sound and id go belt drive so it's vpi. Like the arm too. Good fundamentals
     
  5. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    VPI, a heavy platter rules for reduced background noise and low level retrieval. This is what makes an audiophile turntable, audiophile.
    The Rega RP8 is certainly a good looker, however without reading the review (and maybe unfair) Rega has a reputation of + pitch issues, and I hate that! I would not want to soak a generous sum of money into a well engineered turntable, but then invest more into an aftermarket sub-platter to correct a speed problem that should NEVER exist. If Rega swallowed the bitter pill, and admitted to this error, then offered a free sub-platter upgrade to all Rega owners with this issue, I would place my full confidence in a company like that. But No... The Rega for decade after decade spins at 78 RPM!
     
  6. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    Read three reviews, two in Hi-Fi News and one in Steriophile. The three decks all at lofty price points were the Perpetuum Ebner 4040, Mark Levinson No515 and VPI Prime Scout. All three ran fast. The Mark Levinson .5%, the Perptuum .8% and the VPI .9%. Seems pretty common amongst turntables.
     
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  7. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Common? Probably. Forgivable? Depends who you ask.
     
  8. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Except direct drives. Which is one reason I’m (probably) never going back. The pitch stability is really more important than the overall speed, but both are important and something belt drives don’t handle well – at least not without the aid of a speed controller.

    Also, I love that the speed/pitch can be adjusted on the Technics. Great for records like the Stones’ Beggars Banquet, where the UK original pressings run slower (and now that I’m used to the 2002 remaster sound slow).
     
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  9. mr.datsun

    mr.datsun Incompletist

    Location:
    London
    The new PSU had speed adjust.
     
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  10. mr.datsun

    mr.datsun Incompletist

    Location:
    London
    The needle-drops I've heard, if anything to go by, suggest that VPI's have their own sound, too. I've never heard one in the flesh.
     
  11. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Good point! I have read the manufacturers prefer speed error on the plus side, since this is less objectionable than on the minus side. There will always be some tolerance with any mechanical device in the real world. These tolerances become much less as the price point increases, or should be. The designed in speed error should not be as excessive as it is... so it must be for a reason, and one that's not published.

    Back in the days of top 40 AM radio, the music was pitched up as much as a semi-tone. This was beneficial in a few ways, an increase of the fast pacing of radio which correlates to youth and an active lifestyle, to squeeze in more commercials and songs per hour, and that the enjoyment of music seems to be enhanced by faster tempo and higher pitch. This to some people "sounds better", sounds livelier. When pitch leans toward flat, this has the opposite effect, as a song may seem to "drag" or tend to sounding darker, if not depressing.

    For the audiophile, speed accuracy should be desired and achievable.
    I surmise the manufacturers feel their product will be preferred by the potential buyer during audition, when its pitch is slightly positive.
    As a musician, I am sensitive to pitch and tempo, so to my ears, positive pitch "rushes" the song, decreases the space between notes, and can detract from the feel of the song.
     
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  12. mr.datsun

    mr.datsun Incompletist

    Location:
    London
    If this is true, why do so many audiophile seem to choose belt-driven? And following on from the comment that direct-drive offer better speed accuracy, why are so many audiophile TTs belt-drive? It is said that direct drives do not offer the same sense of rhythm as belt-driven. Is that true?
     
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  13. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    Without demoing all of them?

    Probably the RP8. I’ve had a few Planars and they’ve always been great. I have zero interest in swapping carts or complex setups/operation.

    If I had to buy a turntable today I’d be interested in demoing the Technics.
     
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  14. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Don't know if that's true
    In my experience, My first AR turntable was belt drive and was stable, no audible flutter. I never documented this with test equip, (which I did not have) but with a steady note from a mellotron, or organ, my "musician's ears" detected no wavering of pitch... a very musical turntable IMO. (and tight bass)

    I am currently using a humble Technics SL-D205 direct drive. It too has no audible wow or flutter. I actually feel it has a better sounding arm vs the 1200SL, slightly shorter and a more accurate arc at the inner groove, lowered tracking error at the inner groove. (trade-off is somewhat more error at the outer groove where this isn't as critical)
     
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  15. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

  16. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Not sure what that means, but I think it’s not true.
     
  17. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I don't think we've actually seen it play a record yet, just that gaudy VPI mat :)


    In that price range, I'd probably go with what I have from Clearaudio, though I paid a lot less...

    [​IMG]

    For VPI, I'm more partial to the older style Aries, there's actually one on audiogon now with a Graham tonearm, looks very nice, I almost bought one like that a long long time ago ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  18. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    I posted a video in the now playing on vinyl or similar thread.

     
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  19. wareagle69

    wareagle69 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston Texas
    Never heard the Rega. Have listened to several 1200Gs and liked their sound. But, I own the Prime and am totally happy with it's performance. So my vote is VPI Prime.
     
  20. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Neither if I have to pay.
     
  21. Carraway

    Carraway Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Like others I also don't think it's true. While my belt drive turntable--originally bought in the 90s--isn't as high end as those discussed in this thread, it came with a strobe which I used to set the correct speeds. Moreover, I don't recall any excessive pitch fluctuation or speed issues, which I should have noticed back when I played along with Aebersold records.

    But to answer your preference question, as I understand it some audiophiles prefer belt drive turntables as it positions the motor further from the cartridge/stylus. That way it's less likely extra noise and vibration will be picked up.
     
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  22. vudicus

    vudicus Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The Technics.
    The reason I love mine so much is because I have a replacement spindle that compensates for off-center pressings.
    I know the tonearm isn't great but I plan on upgrading that too at some point.
     
  23. tman53

    tman53 Vinyl is an Addiction

    Location:
    FLA
    Owned both VPI and Technics tables. I'd take the Prime.
     
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  24. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    this is outstanding, even your best friend approves!
     
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  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    interesting info from the test reports about speed variation- (filtered)

    RP 8 +/- 0.02%, total deviation 0.04%
    Prime +0.03%, -0.02% total deviation 0.05%
    SL 1000G +0.01%, -0.04% total deviation 0.05%
     
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