4K HDR TV advice?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by uncle, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. uncle

    uncle Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Mass
    I have been asked for advice regarding a 4K with HDR ability for a bedroom/spare room tv that would be used primarily to stream Netflix/Amazon and play movies from an HTPC/Media player. I used to be the go to guy in my circle for electronics/computer advice but due to recent changes in my personal life, I just no longer have the time or inclination to keep up as I am not in the position to upgrade myself and for me I am better off keeping myself in the dark so wishing and envy don't cause me issues.

    So any recommendations on a 43-55 inch tv with 4K ability? Motion Blur and Judder are big concerns considering the usage and sensitivity of the people who would be using it. May also be used to occasionally game from a PS4 but not a PC or Xbox1 so input lag might be something to consider. Budget anywhere from $500-$1000 but obviously the lower the better but if the upper range is really worth it, then they are willing to pay it.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Rhapsody In Red

    Rhapsody In Red Formerly Wrapped in Plastic

    You could find some decent 4K tvs with HDR in that size range for under 1000. I was looking at LG, Sony, then as a final option Samsung. The 2017 models hit the market last week or will be hitting the market soon. So there should be some sales out there. Couple weeks ago I was in Best Buy and the sales men were trying to offload stock for the new models.
     
  3. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Here's one that should be what you're looking for - Hisense 55" 4K Ultra HD smart TV with High Dynamic Range - $549.99.

    Hisense - 55" Class (54.6" Diag.) - LED - 2160p - Smart - 4K Ultra HD TV with High Dynamic Range - Black

    As for judder suppression, it's still a problem across all brands (as it's related to the source frame rate). All sets pretty much have some kind of setting for motion smoothing or judder suppression. Usually there is a range of setting values from none to max, but you have to be careful not to crank it up too high as you will get soap opera effects (SOE). Some sets are better than others in this department, but generally, using the lowest possible setting will improve motion without making it look weird.
     
  4. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    Those Hisense sets are very good for the money. Best Buy had the 65" Hisense H8 series for $799 and it got rave reviews.
    I'm amazed at how often I see the SOE in play at people's homes I visit. They always say "But it looks so clear!" Never mind how odd it looks.
     
  5. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Yeah, it's like watching 4:3 content stretched out to fit 16:9. What do you mean everyone looks short and fat?
     
  6. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    Sorry where did I say that? Although some of my friends are short and fat.
     
  7. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    You didn't say it, I did (to illustrate similar amazement to your SOE observation and how so many people simply don't see anything wrong).
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I can't recommend anything under $1000 for HDR -- it's tough to do under $3000.
     
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  9. uncle

    uncle Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Mass
    This is going to be in a spare room and used maybe 2 times a month, it isn't going to be a reference video display situation. The people just wanted basically future proof the tv as much as they can just in case.

    The Hisense above apparently has really bad judder on all movie sources as it doesn't handle 24P so I don't think that is an option as they are really sensitive to motion blur and judder. No Soap Opera effect for them. But I appreciate the recommendation.

    Does anyone have any experience with either the Vizio P50-C1 or the Samsung KS8000?
     
  10. drumzNspace

    drumzNspace Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Yuck City
    What about Sony?
     
  11. John Moschella

    John Moschella Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Christiansburg, VA
    Someone make the case of why one would want any judder suppression.

    Judder is an artifact of 24 fps film, if you eliminate the judder than it doesn't look like film anymore. If you are watching video sourced material then you don't need it at all and it looks the way it should.
    Is it there only to make film look like video?
    I'm not an expert on this and my question is genuine.

    When I see a TV with smooth motion on I basically can watch a movie, it looks awful.
    Do people really like this?
     
    Dan C and Vidiot like this.
  12. My son owns the 65" Vizio and it looks amazing to me, but I am not aware about any judder (or did not notice). I re-watched the whole Breaking Bad series on Netflix 4K :righton:
     
  13. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Film at 24fps does have a certain 'look', but judder in panning shots is not a desirable artifact, especially if it's so severe that it looks like frames are being dropped. The judder is exacerbated by the TV display technology itself, so it looks worse that it would appear at the cinema. That's why it's usually a good idea to have the absolute minimum amount of motion compensation on - ie, it won't completely remove all judder, but it will make it look less objectionable while still preserving the film 'look'.
     
    EddieVanHalen likes this.
  14. John Moschella

    John Moschella Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Christiansburg, VA
    Understood, but if your TV can display 24 fps native then why would it look more severe than the cinema?
    If the TV only has a 60 Hz refresh rate (or multiples) and you need the 3-2 pulldown algorithm to display film based material, then I can see the need for some kind of interpolation.
    Don't all TVs have 48 or 72 Hz refresh rates these days?
     
  15. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    The main difference between cinema projection and home screens is that movie theater projection systems use double shuttering which reduces the experience of judder and flicker. TVs can't do this so they (some, anyway) do various other things like Black Frame Insertion (which can lead to flicker) and other processing trickery. Much higher refresh rates (60Hz/120Hz/240Hz/480Hz) do help somewhat but there are still issues. For example, sluggish pixel response times lead to motion blurring. There's a lot of processing inside TVs designed to overcome the basic limitation of both the display technology and the legacy 24fps frame rate in movies (which is really too low to capture smooth motion).
     
  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I would just advise that you buy the best LG you can afford. They do have 4K models under a grand that aren't terrible, but I would suggest turning off all the automatic controls, particularly the motion-smoothing modes.
     
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  17. telliott

    telliott Forum Resident

    I just got a 43 inch LG HDR set for my bedroom. I don't have vision good enough to notice all the subtle things so I leave the automatic stuff on. The only HDR video I have seen so far is demo videos on Youtube. They look beautiful. The WebOS interface is nice too. What's a good movie (on Google Play) for showing off the abilities of HDR, and worth taking the time to watch? Google Play has a special going on that any single movie is 99 cents to rent.
     
  18. telliott

    telliott Forum Resident

    Looks like the movies I searched for on Google Play top out at HD for rental.
     
  19. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    I have a 50" Samsung 4K HDR set and if I'm going to watch a movie with plenty of fast motion scenes (like Roning, The Bourne saga, Star Wars...) I do use Samsung's Motion Plus set to 1 or 2 out of 10 to compensate motion blur. For movies not heavy on fast motion scenes I switch Motion Plus Off.
     
  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    If the cinematographers follow the rules, there is no judder and no shutter problems on horizontal pans at 24fps. But that's a big IF. I have encountered situations where we had to artificially add blur to pans because of shutter issues on occasions, particularly when there were visual artifacts. But we're watching displays that have no motion compensation -- we're seeing real 24fps, 100% of the time.
     
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  21. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    What are these rules DP has to follow so there is no judder? Could you name a few movies/scenes where these rules were not followed and led to visible judder please? I'm curious...
     

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