5.1 surround sound mixes - how are these enjoyable?

But is that true? Correct me with examples but as I understand it, quad production was only possible in certain studios, and therefore most quad was post-production from masters where the stereo had already been created and most of these quad productions were 'handled' without the artists even being present, as is currently the case with many of the 5.1 releases.

 

Do you listen to, say, The Beatles (White Album) in stereo?

I ask, in case anyone wonders, because the process would be similar to what you describe here. I've gotten a handful of MONO Beatles releases and I have yet to experience an 'Aha!' moment. Sgt. Peppers is the only one that really says, "keep listening to this one," IMO. Not ready to spring for the White Album in MONO at this point. Love my stereo versions.

So, is it just a purist p.o.v. here or strictly an ambivalence toward what you actually have heard? No judgement here. Just curiosity.

 

It's ambivalence and frustration, pretty much as per the OP.
I am excited by the idea of Surround Sound and as I still don't have a setup, I look forward to a certain annual catsit in London where a friend has all the kit, all set up and balanced etc.
But every single time I'm frothing with anticipation, when he tells me, 'I've got the XTC 5.1's', say, I sit down in the sweet spot, start it up and five minutes later feel like I want to hear THE ALBUM.
As I say, not knocking what the remix producers do, not knocking what people who dig it get out of it but just wish I could overcome the feeling of 'This isn't the album'

 

so producers and sound engineers do not get to have artistic expression?

 

i guess it depends on preconceived notions and expectations.
i listen to anything with a blank canvas attitude, whether i have heard it before or not.
i didn't listen to the heavy horses issue with a mind of "ok it used to sound like this, dazzle me". i like the songs and just let it be what it is. i enjoy it. i can't make you enjoy it, but if you go in with a certain expectation, you're always going to be disappointed, no matter what it is

 

You misunderstand me. I'm just pointing out that where the producer/artist/engineer expression is the stuff of the actual album production, quad and 5.1 post-production is or can be a 'service industry'.
I'm sure that Steven Wilson, for example, with the amount of 5.1 post-productions on his calendar does not engage in artistic expression. That would be for his various artistic projects which must be on every other day of his calendar because he's quite the prolific.
So...without wanting to put anybody's nose out of joint, it is surely pretty fair to say that 5.1 post-production, especially those removed from the original date/personnel and location of production by decades, must be understood as the contemporary version of the 90's phenomenon of remixers sticking their name on an artist's record because the record company sent it over with a stack of cash to get it on the charts again. Not to be too cynical about it but we are getting toward a standardised superdeluxe situation where EVERY album will have a 5.1 remix.

 

well i am more annoyed than excited by the record companies in that particular issue. (super deluxe ribbon and a monkey box)
i still maintain that a 5.1 mix is a form of artistic expression and most of the time band members are involved anyhow ... especially on the better ones

 

G: "Professor's got a good point."

G: "Skippers' got a good point."

G: "Professor's got a good point."

S: "Oh, Gilligan! They can't all be good points!"

G: "Skipper's got a good point."

 

How are they NOT enjoyable?

 

Bad setup?

 

How did I get back on page 1?

 

I've always found it a shame that the 5.1 format never took off in the way it was expected to. The problem was definitely in convincing people to upgrade to a (usually expensive) player with set of relevant speakers.
I remember a slew of releases being rolled out in 2002 and hearing/reading all the hype around it,so I bought the DVD-A's of albums I liked and put away until I got around to getting 5.1 capable equipment,which for some reason I kept delaying while sticking with CD's & MP3s ,and eventually took me over a decade !! http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/images/smilies/orangelaugh.gif (Life happens and time flies) But I took to it instantly,definitely my kinda thing. If it was better promoted and understood at the time I think people would have invested in it more and seen it grow and take over as the definitive music format. oh well!

 

The problem was 2 formats so different.

 

Sony and warner spoiled my party

 

what gets my goat is why EVERY. SINGLE. DAMN. TIME. there's a format war!
at least everyone agreed on cd initially...well, there were those oddities that came out and died
if they ditched the 'war' and just decided on something, the crazy patchquilt of formats is making me dizzy!

 

these types of threads are all just one big page 1.

 

phillips made so much from cd patents that everyone wants their pound of flesh. the consumer, that keeps them all alive, gets shafted every time
i think it was phillips, it's been a while

 

The round and round and round of these argumentative threads gets old. The thing is that many people want their original mixes and what's wrong with that. They will ALWAYS be available one way or another. And that's a fact, even if it's on an old 8 track.

A 5.1 mix (or quad for that matter) is not for everyone, and those folks don't need to stop, look, or listen. Just go listen to your stereo and be happy, but really, just leave the surround fans alone. They're not ruining your original stereo mixes. No albums have been totally deleted to the point that only the surround mix remains available for purchase. (While in many cases just the opposite is true)

So listen if you like, don't listen if you don't. Honestly, if your mind is so trained that having a background vocal come from behind you freaks you out, then switch to the stereo track. Simple.

 

Technology simply cannot remain static - it's not the nature of things. The same technological curiosity and innovation that brought you the CD in the first place is going to keep giving you a parade of alternatives, some of which will prevail and many that will not.

 

If you ask me, this thread would be a lot more realistic, if it were remixed to Atmos.

 

I think part of the problem is that Sony (and the other majors) keep wanting THE NEXT BIG THING. CD's exploded when they came out in the 1980s and I think they wanted the same thing with SACD or SACD surround. So they introduce it and when it didn't EXPLODE onto the scene they started talking about ditching it. High expectations vs Reality. SACD's are better - they sound better, can hold mono/stereo and surround sound, etc., but your average person, 15 years later, still doesn't even know what they are and doesn't understand why they're better.

Every market in music is a niche market now. Some are bigger than others, but almost everything sells: vinyl, CDs, SACDs, downloads, surround, mono, mp3s, streaming, etc. I don't foresee any of it going away or any new product coming along to topple all of those things, at least not anytime soon. I think the days of having one music format dominate everything are behind us, for better or worse.

 

That's exactly right. Back in the day before massive internet stores you could ask a guy in a good cd store if they had any dvd audio and he would point to a concert video. Ask for sacd and they would just look confused.
The majors have been destroying the industry that keeps them afloat for at least 30 years. It is bizarre

 

If your 5.1 surround experience is '3D confection', then perhaps either you haven't experienced a well produced surround recording yet or it almost sounds like your system may not be set up properly. In my opinion, if it sounds 3D, it is not necessarily 5.1 descrete and balanced. If I'd guess, if all surround sounds is like 3D, I would say your system isn't configured properly. OR.....maybe 5.1 will never be your cup of tea. And that is ok, too. But if I was a betting man, I would say your system is not set up properly.

 

Setting up one's surround sound system correctly is vital to whether it will sound good or not. That includes speaker placement and type as well as making sure all channel volume levels are matched. Using an analog SPL meter on a tri-pod or a mic stand positioned at the main listening position to check channel levels is important IMO. Also the quality of the multichannel mix will make a huge difference as well. There are some incredible multichannel mixes out there that will make a well setup system shine! But a bad multichannel mix no matter the gear or how well the system is setup will not sound good.