Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by tinnox, Feb 8, 2018.
No, this young lad explains the difference perfectly...see the video at 50 seconds in.
Two superb posts, thanks guys.
Great post. I agree, though I do hear some “Long Long Long” in solo George tunes such as “Be Here Now.”
I love DPMB, and if I confine myself to the White Album, I'll take the song over "I Will," "Julia," "Honey Pie," "Savoy Truffle" and "Good Night."
"For me, I hear a BAND riding on a music train that sometimes doesn't have a driver and might just run off the tracks. But at the last second, they get it back on the rails. I see/hear it as a crazy musical journey, of a BAND so far ahead of the competition and even so far ahead of themselves, where they just want to totally immerse themselves in ALL sounds. It's not the same structured and polished band of A Hard Day's Night, Revolver, Sgt Pepper, or Abbey Road. It's a BAND diving musically into new waters but without fear. And also without limits and without safety guards. It's drug and alcohol fueled; and it's tender and sweet. It's brutal and abrasive, and it's honest and touching. In fact, it's The Beatles. They knew exactly what it was, and who they were---hence, the title.
I wouldn't have it any other way."
Thank you Arnold!
Perfectly stated! I wouldn't want it any other way, either, not a jot, not a whit. At best, I'm just hoping for a little bit more, one last glimpse into how the recipe was executed.
Whether or not a reissue comes out, November 22nd will still be the 50th anniversary of an important and renowned album. It is, after all, a "50th Anniversary Celebration," not a "Deluxe Expanded Reissue Celebration."
To be fair, Pepper didn't have "2 whole discs of outtakes." It had two 50-minute discs of outtakes, with one or two versions of each songs, plus a handful of vintage mono mixes tacked to a different disc (in what appears to me to have been a very last-minute decision).
I've been loath to guess, because the decisions have all already been made and I don't want to over-promise myself anything. Lowball estimate:
Discs 1 & 2 - New stereo remix of original album. They could put another hour of material on those two discs, but they won't, out of the same sense of misplaced reverence that keeps the Red Album a double set despite its 62-minute running time.
Disc 3 - Esher demos.
I disagree. The dead space on the original album CDs may be sacrosanct, but discs 4 & 5 would still have some room left over for the singles even with some doubling like on Pepper. I see the singles being interspersed with the album tracks in chronological order, same as Pepper. (That's not necessarily what I want them to do - it's what I envision them doing.)
I think they could easily justify a sixth audio CD, or put the singles on the same discs as the remixed album, but I don't want to promise myself that. Same goes for the songs that didn't make the album at all. I think it would be a dreadful mistake if "Not Guilty" were represented only by the Esher demo, but I'd rather brace for it and be pleasantly surprised than assume we're getting four versions and then curse the heavens for not living up to my fantasies. (Remember the moaning when Pepper excluded "Only a Northern Song," several months after the preliminary announcement accurately said that the set would comprise the album plus SFF/PL?)
Thank you. And to PeteM also. Yes, Long... definitely has the closest sound to solo Harrison out of all the Harrisongs on here. Also I was thinking about BuCo's statement about the White Album being the lead-in to Lennon's POB and McCartney's 1st LP. Their "solo sound" on some of these songs is closer to those albums than other solo albums that followed, and I feel there is at least some slight resemblance, at least in a few songs. You could say I Will is a little like The Lovely Linda, for example, inasmuch as they both reflect a whimsical, romantic (and acoustic) side of Paul. Ram and Imagine are a little further down the solo path but still have some echoes of the White Album. It's tempting to think of what these would have sounded like as Beatles' songs instead of solo, but I think that's already been discussed somewhere else.
I wish I could argue with you, flattered as I am that you quoted me. But, alas, I go into this release granting that you're probably only too right. It seems to me the problem on Apple's part has always been an underestimation of our attention span / discernment / archival knowledge. The entire "deluxe" proposition is not geared to the general buying public in the first place (though they will undoubtedly sell great numbers in smaller "deluxe" formats). But the full-scale deluxe sets? They can't be designed for anyone but fanatics. Such sets are certainly not going to convert anyone - they are by nature geared to the listener willing to go (and spend) above and beyond. So what's the problem? Why the continual toe in the water instead of the deep dive? We're obviously out there, and always have been - just holding our breaths for such deep dives, hanging on by our fingernails since the first whispers about "Sessions" way back in '81. Which is what I meant by asking them to, finally, please "go for it." Yet I suspect that, great as this set will undoubtedly be, they will not "go for it" like Dylan has clearly understood he is most welcome to. And what a shame. I fear it'll be another 30 years until we can pay to download the session tapes, if ever. Maybe the next generation of family curators will understand the depth of our passion better. And, still, I'm SO grateful for whatever we may soon get.
I suspect they know that some people [clears throat] will buy whatever they put out. But they don't want to put all of it out. They don't want us to hear every mistake, every dead end, every idea that sounded cool at the time but didn't translate to performance.
If they didn't put out any outtakes, then we'd only have the pristine final products. We'd have too high an opinion of them. Which is nice for a while (hence no outtakes until 1995) but it can be burdensome. The Beatles have never been perfect, have never been anything more than four human beings who, like everyone else, are riddled with flaws. If they are seen as infallible wizards, then they set an impossible standard for their future work. Also, if they made it look easy, then no one appreciates the effort they put into the work (for it was work, even if what musicians do is "play").
If they put out all the outtakes, the fear is that the mystique disappears completely. The finished work is swamped in a sea of mistakes and false starts and not-quites. (And if they put out every raw session tape, people would be howling for them to release every vintage mix prepared from those session tapes.) Ever been to the Smithsonian? There are some amazing exhibits there. You leave wanting to see more - and there is more. The displays make up a tiny fraction of the Institute's collection. But if you put out everything, the gems get lost among, say, 750 indistinguishable stuffed sparrow carcasses. There is such a thing as "too much." And there's probably a lot of stuff that's so bad, they're still embarrassed by it today. Even the most attention-starved celebrity doesn't have a webcam pointed at their toilet 24/7. Some things are best left unseen and unheard.
They're trying to walk a line in between. Enough to give us a sense of what it was like in the studio, and how damned hard they had to work to get the music to sound as good as it did and still does. But not so much that they're seen as cashing in on material that is, by definition, substandard.
Honest people of good will can differ about where to draw the line. (I'd like to hear more stuff too, and I want to pay the creators for legitimate copies. During the Pepper discussion, I cringed every time I saw "I'm not gonna buy it, I already have the bootleg.") But I'm very pleased that there have been steps in the direction of opening the vault a little bit. I'll buy what comes out and hope it encourages them to give us a little more.
I appreciate your love for the group, but I believe that this romantic, mythologized view of the group at the time of the WA is contradicted by the evidence, both musical and personal.
Listening to it right now. At night with a glass of Hefeweizen.
Life is full of simple pleasures.
I got blisters on ...
You should probably have that checked out...
I used to place the White Album in that space of four almost-solo artists just happening to dump all their tracks onto four sides...
Yet, they created and released an album called The Beatles — it’s a Beatles album because they said it was, as John Lennon said of Sgt. Pepper as a concept album. The White Album as a Beatles album is not mythology, it’s fact. The personal? Meaningless, IMO. The musical evidence: There are Beatles on every track, if not contributing directly as musicians or vocalists, then either encouraging, criticizing, or otherwise involved. It’s the album from a band, and their best, IMO. (If anything, Abbey Road is much more artificial as Beatles album. That’s the one that’s romanticized.)
50 years OMG, I'm so old ...
Harpsichord with backward loops and flute
It's interesting when you look at the songs as they were recorded chronologically. IIRC the earlier songs are more complete Beatles songs and as the sessions became more hostile there were more of the songs that people point to when referring to the WA as a collection of solo songs
DPMB was an old song, basically co-written with Paul. I'll agree with the low grade, maybe go D+ at most. But the band had always held with giving Ringo at least one vocal track per LP and continued to fulfill this tradition with "Don't Pass Me By" and "Good Night" on the WA. Alternate drum-heavy versions are much more interesting.
Savoy Truffle with John.
Savoy Truffle Whitman's Sampler version
Just wish J&P had written another one for him to sing. Five minutes over a cuppa and a bikkie they could have come up with a far better song than DPMB
Maybe they'll drop a few of those 100 takes and make room for the 27-min Helter Skelter. Or maybe that one gets disc #9 all to itself.
True, but Ringo felt insecure during these sessions and I think J&P wanted to give him this.
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