Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ambel, Sep 30, 2002.
I think that these tubes sucks.
Who has the same opinion ?
Depends on how you word your question, which was a little cryptic. Ever think that maybe your specific tube is bad?
What you have is an ECC88 type of tube, which is fairly popular. There are cross-replacements for the type, which is nice. The 6922's are usually less micrpophonic, but I guess what you have to give up some information.
There's a reason why you might think the "tube type" is bad, but once you designate the tube for the wrong application, you might think they "Suck".
Or simply, the tube is bad....like a bad egg. Replace it?
So, what are you using the tube(s) in, what brand/designation is it (if you know) and what might be your listening standards (music)?
On this I might be able to make a suggestion......
...But if you want my opinion, Noooo. The tube type does not suck. It's quiet, and used in specific applications, just like the rest of them. Using them incorrectly or for the circut that doesn't suit it, can make any tube suck, sure!
Sonically I find the 6DJ8 family i.e 6922, 7308, 7DJ8 too lean and lacking musicality.
Specially as a voltage amplifier that's the main reason that I
got rid off my Audio Research pre in the 1990's. I've got an SP-10 and SP-14
I've used pre's that use 12AX7, and 12AU7 instead until I got a CAT
SL-1 pre which I choose because of the pace, timing and rhythm. It has the
speed that Jadis doesn't have. I've been using the CAT as a phono stage
feeding a custom made line stage based on octal tubes which I find to
bettered the CAT in all areas. Then I changed my phono stage to
an octal based tube and removed the 6DJ8 from the signal path and like magic, the leaness, and glare is gone.
I tried most of the 6DJ8's out there, like Telefunkens, Amperex, Siemens, Tungsram, Sovtek, Sylvania, GE and etc. They are all thin sounding to me...
I have to agree. The 6DJ8 family is my least favorite for home audio tubes. Audiophiles love them for their "detail". But none of them have the "breath of life" IMO.
I have avoided some audio gear that use them just because of this.
However, the Marantz 9's (probably the most sought after of all push-pull "Golden Age" amp designs) use them. I wish they hadn't!
Steve... Over in the tube diy forum in audioasylum in the archives I see people putting down anything 12au7, 12at7 or 12ax7 and swear by the 6SN7. Whats your opinion on this tube?
Others swear by old 26's,27's, 56's, & 76's, and I don't think there is anyone making these relics anymore. Anyone have an opinion?
Well, those DIY guys are opinionated, but lovable.
I like the octals, 6SL7 and 6SN7 (or their RCA Red Base super duper equivalents), but I wouldn't throw a good 12AX7 out of bed either. The Telefunken 12AX7 is the basis for some of my "dream" tube sound, and it's a lowly miniature!
Remember, the DESIGNER can make mutton out of any old mutt!
My Musical Fidelity tube buffer stage came with 6922's (Phillips JAN's), and they warmed things up in my mighty chilly system (neutral Adcom preamp, frigid Dynaco ST-150). Things got much better with some Amperex 7308's (date codes etched, right halo structure inside, Amperex lettering the right size - I read Upscale Audio's site info very carefully before buying & axed the seller to forward lotsa pix first) - much warmer/friendlier sound, very detailed (part of me still digs that transistory overdetailed sound - it's hard to give up...). They have also got a tremendous lifespan judging by my daily use for over 2 years now. Since I don't swing in the audio big leagues I don't know what'll happen when I upgrade my amp, but for the money I spent I'm happy. Course, Steve's wondering why my bought on the cheap Dynaco PAS-3X with Telefunken 12AX7's isn't hooked up, but I wanna get that thing scrubbed and tuned up before I start the tube guilt by firing up those Deutschland Diamond beauties...
The Telefunken 12AX7/ECC83 is one of the most musical tube around.
And it's been my choice of tube for the past 15 years from DAC, phono,
line, and amp. One criteria in buying equipment is the 12AX7 must be
in the circuit. I tried every flavor and variant of these tubes settled for
only 3 brands in the flowing order Telefunken for line, and amp section.
Sylvania Gold brand/gold pin 5751 for phono, and DAC. But right now the
Tele's has been unseat ed by RCA 5692 on the amp, Sylvania VT-231 on
line, RCA 5691 on phono. The only remaining one is the 5751 on the DAC.
Slowly but surely the octals are taking over.
Separate names with a comma.