A Little Lube'll Do Ya? - Vintage record player issue!

Looks like it's time for me to learn more about my vintage record player once more! Here's the issue, any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated!

I own a vintage Sears Silvertone portable record player. It's been going along great. But over the last couple months I've noticed an odd occurence. With the first record you would put on to play, the tone arm would move in slow motion. It would work fine, just slow motion. The record would drop, the tone arm would slowly hover over the record, drop to play the record, and the minute it hit the record BOOM, it would return to normal speed and start playing just fine. Thing is, it only seemed to do this with the first record. Other records after that during the same playing period would have no problem.

Until yesterday. Slow motion, hit record to play, did not pick up any speed. Record would sound like it was playing in a lower speed. Then finally the turn table just stopped turning. Argh. So I took the turntable plate (I think that's what it's called) off, and saw this smaller "platter" (definitely not what it's called. It's what spins the turn table plate), which was next to this protruding item circled in white, in this photo (also don't know what that is called, sorry!)



This spins, which in turn spins the smaller "platter", which in turn spins the turn table platter. Hey, I figured all of that out by myself! (The smaller "platter" is removed in this photo, by the way.) I attempted to give this little thing a small spin, which would start it up, and it would spin away, and then after a bit get slower, or sometimes stop. Ugh, I thought. But I did that a few times, and finally it kept on doing what it was supposed to do. So I put the smaller "platter" back on, and it kept spinning. Put the turn table platter back on, and played a record, both sides, perfectly.

So here are my thoughts. Is this "protrusion" something that might need some lube? WD40 or something? It's vintage, I have never done anything with it, and though it's in great shape, I've read that grease and lube in these things dries up or gets gummy after a while. My wild guess is, when the record player would start up it would be "cold" so it would move in slow motion, but as the spinning item got going, it heated up, and the lube got less gummy. And therefore would play fine. But it's just progressively getting worse. And maybe a little lube would give it the fresh boost it needed? Just not sure what to use (unless it is indeed WD40.) Or is that's the issue? Thoughts! Thanks again! (more photos and a working video below.)

 

Here's is a video of the parts I'm talking about, in motion -

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204974229968688

 

Nathan, the small rotating wheel is called the idler wheel. I wouldn't use WD-40 on it though, as it really isn't intended to be a lubricant. Instead get some light machine oil (like that used for a sewing machine) and just apply only one or two drops to the motor shaft (what you circled in white), being careful not to get any oil on either the idler wheel or the stepped part of the shaft it contacts. You may also want to lubricate the area at the bottom of the spindle where the platter rests; again just one or two drops. If you get any oil on the idler wheel or the shaft it contacts be sure to clean it off completely (isopropyl alcohol will work well.)

 

Thanks for the knowledge and the info! I'll try this out! I'm thinking what you'd do is drop a couple drops onto the motor shaft, but more so the portion that's down inside the hole were it sits?

 

Don't put any oil on those steps. You just want oil down where the shaft enters the motor. Also, a little on the idler shaft too. Clean the rubber edge of the idler with alcohol and the steps on the motor shaft. Those surfaces must be very clean so there is enough friction between them to turn the platter.

Your problem actually sounds like a slippage problem. Is the rubber on the idler nice and supple or has it gotten hard? If it's hard, you will need to get a new idler or have the rubber replaced. If it's supple but the edge is "glazed", the alcohol should remove that.

Doug

 

Right, just like Doug G. said, the oil goes down near where the shaft enters the motor. Remember, one or two drops is all that's needed. Doug is right, clean the stepped portion of the shaft and the idler wheel with alcohol, no matter what.

How about some pictures of the whole record player? I had a Sears Silvertone portable stereo when I was 14 years old (1968). From the little bit of yours that I see, I'm guessing it's from somewhere around 1965.

 

It's approximately 1962 (from an old catalog I've seen.) Got it at an estate sale.

 

Whoa ! That thing looks like my first record player, a german Symphonic with detachable speakers I owned at the age of 5. My first record was a Wings single I loathed.

 

Nice! They used the same turntable in many of their consoles. Does yours have the "floating" cartridge? (I can't see the front of the tonearm in the pic.) I believe that there were a couple of different grades used, mostly "better" cartridges. If you think about it, they had to have been pretty well made to last so long (my Mom has a Sears console from 1963 that still works, also.)

 

I'm not sure what the floating cartridge would look like? Can you give me more details? Here's a photo of the cartridge:



I found it at an estate sale for $150. Which was a bit steep for me. But it was in such excellent condition, and I'm a huge sucker for orange (so the accents helped seal the deal!)

 

A good resource for ya -- http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/phono_wheels_turrets.asp

Gary is awesome and can help you get the right parts.

 

Nice photos. Yes, you're on the right track. Yes, these things need a lube after all these years. You're problem definitely sound the the motor needs a lube, but why not give the drive mechanism a once over. The spinning metal part is your capstan. The "stepped" portion of it is what gives you your different speeds. As the rubber wheel shifts to the different diameter "steps" on the capstan, that determines the speed of the record player. -- the wider steps make the table run at 78 rpm, medium thickeness at 45rpm and thinnest part is 33 1/3. As others have said, a couple drops of oil on the base of the capstan (which goes down into the motor) might help. You also want to grease up the pivot on which the idler wheel spins. I don't see what's holding the rubber wheel on it's shaft. No "C clip." If you can get that rubber wheel off, you want to use some grease on that shaft. If you can't get it off, then I'd put a drop or two of oil there, too, so the idler wheel is also spinning nice and smoothly. Do that, then you have to make sure the edge of rubber idler wheel, the capstan AND the inner edge of the platter (which is the name of the circular plate you took off on which the record sits) has to be SQUEAKY clean. When I say the inside edge of the platter, consider where that rubber idler wheel will be touching the platter when it's replaced. All those surfaces should be cleaned with alcohol (some suggest simple green to remove grease and oil) and you should even avoid getting fingerprints on any of those parts. Any grease or oil will add to slippage and wow and flutter. Now that's the basic drive mechanism of your turntable being given a once over. I'm hoping that should take care of it. Other parts to oil is any linkage the moves the arm on which the idler wheel sits when changing speed, basically where it looks like metal bits slide on each other. To really get at it, you'll have to open it up, but why not try to see if a little oil here and there will help. Of course , it's best to try and clean these parts of old oil before relubing. On these linkages, I would use grease (lithium grease is always good to use), but you could could get away with oil. The best oil (which you can also use in your motor) is 3 in One Motor oil in the BLUE CAN. It is a highly refined 20 weight oil with no additives. DO NOT use the standard 3 in One oil in the red can. A lifetime of the 3 in One will run you four bucks at a hardware store. I get mine at ACE. Now, you may need more advanced work. Most likely that would be the rubber edge on your idler wheel need some sanding. That is because the rubber dries out and loses some grip or it just becomes caked with a hard surface from wear. An easy fix is to get some fine grade sand paper (no more grit that 600) and run the turntable, sanding evenly on the rubber idler wheel to get rid of that worn out edge and reveal new rubber. You don't have to sand much, just a for a minute until the edge has a nice matt surface again and looks clean.
'

Okay, If you still have a problem, it could be the motor is gummed up which means disassembling it and a cleaning of the brushes and rotors. Not really hard, but can be scary. But they're generally well built and things go back just fine. Hopefully you won't have to do that! It looks really well made. Well worth getting her back into shape! And don't worry, they're damn metal machines. They take a licking and keep on ticking even though you may screw up a few times. Just clean it up and start again!

 

That sure is in beautiful condition, Nathan. Usually, the plastic, whether vinyl covered wood or molded, especially white, is all discolored on them.

I'm almost ready to say that is an Astatic 133 cartridge on there with the angled front. I'd have to see the top to be sure. That is the same cartridge that was in my little Coronado consolette I got for confirmation in 1968.

My parents also had a Silvertone console. It would have been a 1965 or 1966 model.

The "floating cartridge" concept just meant the cartridge, instead of being solidly mounted at the front of the tonearm, was mounted on a moveable bracket (the white plastic piece in your picture) which pivoted up and down. The weight on the front which moves up and down in the slot, provides the correct tracking force.

Doug

 

Thanks for the more detailed information, Chad!

Doug

 

Doug, do you also find it odd there's no C-clip on the idler wheel?

 

Nathan did have the idler off so we have to ask him if the C-clip was off before he took the idler off or if he just didn't put it back on yet.

Doug

 

I had a possible cartridge/needle issue mid-last year, so you can read all about that and the outcome here:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/can-you-name-this-sound-vintage-record-player-issue.362330/

I took the c-clip off. All the pieces were/are there. But since I have been having to "jump start" it lately, I didn't want to keep putting it all back on, take it off, etc. Those c-clips are a pain in the butt to get on and off. Which is probably the point!

 

Doug, it IS in great condition! There are only a few light scratches on the surface. I'm not even sure what the surface is, it's kinda fabric like, but not really, who knows. But I'm impressed with the condition. I found another Silvertone portable (different style, but similar interior/record player) at a yard sale (it doesn't even work, so they only charged me $5!) I thought maybe one day I might need some pieces from it, who knows. But it's just a mess. Someone thought the garage was the best place to store it apparently, and sadly.

 

What are your thoughts on using clipper oil as the light weight oil for lubrication? I have some that came with my Wahl beard trimmer. Someone just suggested that to me and I hadn't thought of that. It might not be what I need, though.

 

Yes, that's the floating cartridge design. It's just like the one my mom has in her Silvertone console, though hers says "Medalist" on the operating controls rather than "Syntronic."

Clipper oil should be fine for your purpose; it's light and shouldn't build up over time if used sparingly.

 

Sigh. So it looks like the one thing I was hoping wasn't the issue, might end up being the issue. I'm starting to think it's the, ugh, motor. I've played around and cleaned the idler wheel (even replaced it with an "extra" one I had, from the same type model.) I could get it to spin away, without having the platter on it. But many times I'd place the platter back on, and nothing. So I was thinking rubber issues with the idler wheel. But then I went and had it spinning (without the platter, again) - walked away, came back, and the capstan had stopped moving. Completely. I had lightly oiled it with the clipper oil. A couple drops. So I'm changing my opinion on the issue, and thinking it's the capstan. Which is moved by the motor. Therefore - motor. Plus, at times I can get it to work, but the LP will play fine for a bit, then you'll start hearing distortion in the music, and after a while it'll just stop playing period. And at one point, I attempted to change the speed, flipping it from 33 to 45, and it would not return to any other speed after that. No matter what I selected, it stayed at 45. You can hear some of the distortion in this video.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205069244423990

The problem is, this type of portable player is delicate. The covering scratches so easily. So while I know of a record store that does have someone that fixes record players, I've never had any repaired before, and I'm just afraid of what could happen to the record player if the person isn't careful with it. So I'd like to play around with it myself. Maybe end up ordering a new motor from the link further up in this thread? But the first problem is (other than the fact that I am definitely no mechanic!) is I can't even get the thing out to look at it? Does anyone have any suggestions? No openings (or screws) on the back, or on the bottom. I attempted to go in via the sides (which is where the speakers are, and there are screws to the speakers) but it's a dead end once you remove the speaker cover. So the only thing I can think of it lifting it out. But there are no screws for that, either (as you can see in the photo below.) There are these things on the sides, I don't even know what they are? Does anyone here? They DO lift up a bit, but it doesn't seem to allow me to lift out the entire piece. Are they just for the "spring" action that is part of this main metal playing portion of the player? Because if you press down on the four sides of the metal areas, it kinda springs back. Anyway not sure what the next step it. It's a beautiful player, and I paid a pretty penny for it, so I'm definitely wanting to get it back into working order again if I can...