A Little Lube'll Do Ya? - Vintage record player issue!

You need to recondition and or replace your drive tyre (wheel)

As well as lubricate your changer mechanism

A slipping drive tyre will cause all of the concerns you have mentioned (slow, then up to speed etc)

You can clean the drive shaft yourself and service your idler as well

With the platter off your machine, engage the drive (so the big wheel is spinning) and LIGHTLY sand the edge of the rubber disc with some 600-1500 grit paper (just let the paper touch the tyre's edge while it spins) Don't overdue it; you just want to knock off a few molecules worth of glaze

Follow up with a swab or paper napkin wet with isopropyl alchohol

Look at you platter's inner lip (where the tyre makes contact) and clean that thoroughly as well Use metal polish (see below) and wash/clean up all and any residue with the isopropyl alcohol

I disengage the tyre (you may need to just remove it) and polish the motor drive shaft with a Q-tip dipped in Flitz, Maas or even Brasso is fine until it is clean

Get it SHINY and then follow with alcohol, get it CLEAN

Put it all back together and see how it works

Do this first before you start doing any "oiling" and see how it performs

Unless you know exactly were to put oil you can cause more mess than good

After you do what I have suggested and if the machine exhibits a marked improvement in performance then you know what your problem is

If you love this old player then you would be wise to invest in a new drive wheel or have yours re-edged

On some wheels, what I have outlined will keep them going another 5 years, but that is seldom the case

Won't know until you try it

Good luck

(my Son is a UNC-G graduate school grad) I am originally from Greenville

Analogman

 

Too bad the cleaning an oiling didn't do the trick. It is possible that it is the motor, and that's a bummer. As far as for having a third party do the repairs, you could take it in to the guy and see if he knows how to work on a portable like yours, but don't leave it with him unless you're completely comfortable doing so. The two things on the sides of the plinth are the transport clips, and should be engaged when you ship the unit. That is, they should be in the position that doesn't allow the deck to spring back (to lock it in place, push down on the plinth and move the clips in whichever direction locks it in place.) Make sure to never operate the record player with the plinth in the locked position as doing so can put undue stress on the motor, which could eventually damage it. It should be free to spring up and down and back and forth whenever you're playing records. As for removing the deck from the base, you should try to find a service manual. I'm not certain, but my mom has all of the original paperwork that came with her 1963 console, but I don't believe that it includes the service manual. I'll try to remember to look for it the next time I'm at her house.

 

I doubt very much that your motor is bad

Determine how the steeped pulley assembly is secured to the motor shaft and make certain it is tight and not slipping

That would explain your intermittent symptoms and is a very common ailment after time

Analogman

 

Hmm! I'll see what I can do, Analogman! And if you found the service manual, quadjoe, that would ROCK! Thanks to both of you!

 

You do not need a service manual to figure out how to separate your table from the cabinet

Those two "buttons" in you photo may very well be the release (I am almost certain they are; if it were a BSR changer those would be two chrome screw heads

Regardless, all those changer models either used a flip type catch or screw type centering pins to keep the table from falling out during normal use and it the correct orientation when in use

As yours is a portable (suitcase type) I am sure there is a carry mode and a play mode

Screw around with those, push, slide...........just mess with them while gently pulling up

You may be able to lift things up enough to see which type you have; lift it up as far as you are able and see what style clip or release inhibits the whole assembly from exiting the hole

It was designed for this, you cannot hurt anything

Just go slowly once the table has released as there will certainly be some cables to disconnect once you get that far

Are there 4 screws at the corners of the plinth? You can always go that route, but I HIGHLY doubt it will be necessary

Don't be intimidated; might serve you well to have someone else there with you, a second pair of hands could come in handy once you get the thing loose as this will be the first time for you and it could be cumbersome/awkward (not knowing right away what to anticipate)

Check/do what I suggested first!

They are moderating my posts here; I have already posted once that I highly doubt you have a bad motor..............I'll bet money on it.............but the post won't show up for you to see

Analogman

 

Moderating your posts? Are you a trouble maker, Analogman? Well, you've been very helpful to me! So thanks. My only thoughts on it maybe NOT being the drive wheel is, it's the motor drive shaft that stops moving after a while. Which is what leads me to thinking it's the motor, maybe. (But hopefully not! LOL) So I'll give all these suggestions a go, and see what happens!

Oh, and what in the world is the "steeped pulley assembly"?

 

Should have read "the stepped pulley"

The set screw(s) are loose and it's slipping on the motor's drive shaft.......I'll bet you a nickel you do not need new motor

At worst, a cleaning

But you should check the easy common sense things first and dress that rubber tyre as I outlined

What I have suggested is/are the problem(s) the majority of the time

Common problem(s) on old rim drive changers

Analogman

 

Your motor mounts look terrible, and because of this the motor pulley isn't making good contact with the idler.

Replace them. Gary at Voice Of Music (the link I sent you before) carries them

 

Voice of Music may well have made the turntable for Silvertone. It looks rather VoM to me. Another vote for new idler wheel, and stop with the lubricating, go back to the post about polishing and cleaning the capstan, etc.

Gary at VoM may...may...still do repairs. At one time, they would recondition VoM units...and again, this looks as if it may be one.

 

When I do restores on units like these, the trouble spots invariably are the idler wheel and the motor mounts. They're rubber, and they're really old by this point. Occasionally I'll replace or re-adjust the tension spring that holds the idler to the capstan. It is very rare -- almost unheard of -- for the motor to go "bad." But sometimes they do need to be broken down, cleaned, re-lubed, because the bottom bearing well has caked-on gummed up lube.

 

Posts #33, 34 and 35

Exactly

Except (can't tell 100% from the photos) the drive wheel assembly and the motor appear to be on the same assembly and "hang" on the rubber mounts.......so, if they were at fault, the drive wheel can't maintain constant contact with the rim of the platter, not the stepped pulley

Regardless, Ace Hardware has black rubber hole grommets that work well for servicing these parts.......in a multitude of sizes

That's where I source a lot of mine

 

Agree

But that typically will not produce an intermittent problem like his

Only pointing this out as I think he should resolve that issue first before going any further with more involved servicing (and learning as he goes)

But you are correct and the OP should absolutely clean and lubricate the motor eventually to ensure another 50 years of service (and make things quieter as well)

 

There is a spring (in the white cicrle in the photo) which is what holds the idler wheel against the spindle and the platter rim. It likely has weakened over the last half a century, so the idler isn't getting the "bite" that it needs to do its job. If you are mechanically-minded and don't mind "rigging" things, try moving the spring back on its little post, or take a couple of turns out of the spring so that it's stronger. A fountain pen might yield a similar spring that you could try.

 

A couple quick words of caution here

#1 -- Getting those springs in and out of the holes on either side (without mangling them) is a huge PITA. It can be done, but it's a bear. I usually take the idler wheel off while doing this just so's it's out of the way.

#2 -- The trick with replacing springs is getting both the proper length and the proper tension. Often times, the best solution is to "shorten" the existing spring by putting the connection point a couple of loops in. If there's too much tension on that spring, it can affect other changer operations, so ge easy. What you really DON'T want to do is mangle the spring badly in case it's not the spring that's the problem.

Every time I have to scrap a changer, I dutifully yank off every spring in sight and add it to my stash (I call it "My Spring Collection." ).

 

Another thing to do while you're working on this is to clean and lube the bearings for the armature that holds the idler. These are the ones under the two c-clips in your pictures.

What I've learned about working on these is that it's rarely just one thing you can fix that improves operation. The main thing to focus on is getting torque to the platter. And every part of the mechanism will benefit from getting the right kind of TLC.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help and opinions so far! I REALLY appreciate it! I had yesterday off (snow day!) and could have played so much vinyl, except well, sad record player. I kept thinking "Am I going to have to go back to CDs?! I don't even know where they are!" LOL

So, I can with 99.7% certainty tell you it's the motor shaft (which spins the idler wheel.) At least that appears to be the issue with the highest priority. It just STOPS. I can get it going with some light twisting (I realize I have to be careful, don't want to totally break it.) But if I give the silver part on the motor shaft some light twisting, suddenly it'll start up spinning away, and I'll go "yay!" and watch it, and then there will be very subtle moments of it lagging a bit (you can tell by the sound the idler wheel is making while it spins.) and then the motor shaft will simply stop spinning after about a couple minutes. I can usually get it going again with a light twist, but after a bit it'll stop. I keep thinking the motor can't be shot, because with a little nudge it'll spin for a few minutes. I'm honestly thinking maybe over time the insides have indeed gotten gunked up, and it's stopping the motor shaft from spinning after a while? No matter, I really think it's NOT the idler wheel and IS the motor shaft. So, with that said, any more thoughts?

Man I wish I did have the manual for this! I played around with those side spring latches forever, and nothing. That thing does NOT want to come up out of that record player shell. Argh!

 

Do you know if it's the motor proper which stops spinning, or the the stepped capstan?
I do not believe you can actually see it with the pulley in place
Either way, you are wasting your time until you inspect/check/clean what has been suggested

It won't be "gunk" but it could possibly be carbon; is the motor noisy when it's working?
Even that I doubt (but NOT that lubrication wouldn't be a good idea once you're inside)

You do not need a manual in order to figure out how to remove that table, but assuming you do there is no guaranty, and I doubt there is going to be, a set by step procedure outlined for removing that table
There will just be an exploded diagram and in all likelihood a sentence stating "remove changer from cabinet"

I may be wrong, but this has been my experience

I a certain that if you spend the time on the net you can find a mechanical view of this machine

How much research effort have you put into it? Search the action, not the specific manual

The construction/assembly of these sets are almost universal and have been mentioned

Once you get it out you need to thoroughly clean all the switches with a good contact cleaner as well

Good luck

 

It would also be helpful if you would answer my questions; I ask them for a reason (I am trying to help you)

Like the one about screws in the plinth

Another common way they did things was this: remove the amp cover or board (panel) directly in front of the turntable (can't see exactly how yours is done from your photo angles)

Then you should be able to reach your hand in, and under, the table to "flip" those clips I suggested (if yours are in no way "releasable" from above)

They all have some sort of clip underneath; most common type you simply "flip" to the vertical and then the machine will lift free

Those plastic buttons appear too involved to simply be for cosmetic purposes

Posting a Model # might be helpful too

Try taking off the access cover first

 

This may not be a VM changer, though it looks like one. It is unknown as to who made it according to Chris Cuff on YouTube. Gary Stork is still your go to guy on parts. Some other phono restorers say that Glaser-Steers or Alliance may have built this changer. It has similar styling to a VM in ways but some unusual quirks. Is there a 3 number or 4 number code somewhere on that Sears number plate or on the bottom of it. If there is a tag or plate below, with some luck there might be a RETMA or EIA code, that could decipher who manufactured the changer.

 

I found a web site some time ago that claimed all of Sears record changers were made by Alliance, but then I've heard some people say they were made by Collaro, who made changers for Magnavox, but due to their lack of similar styles of functionality, I'd say not so.

 

It's not a VM changer. VMs never had that style size detector back by the tonearm pivot. In this case, it doesn't really matter.

If the motor shaft, itself, is stopping, the motor must be disassembled and the bearings checked for wear. Also, the bearings in those motors are usualy centered by some type of finger/circular spring arrangement and if those springs get weak, they can let the bearings go off center and rub on the stator. Check that out too.

Doug

 

Good advice. I've looked at the pictures again, and it appears to me that the bracket that holds the motor in place appears to be riveted to the deck, so extreme care must be taken if you have to remove the motor to repair or replace it. At any rate something is riveted to the underside of the deck. Remember, these units weren't made to be serviced by the users; they were made back in the day when you took your record player to a repairman to have work done. Nowadays, there are very few people who are able to work on such things.

 

You could be right, Joe. It could be that the motor frame is riveted to the chassis and you can remove the lower bearing bracket/bearing/ by removing a couple of nuts. Wait. Be right back. I want to look at the picture again...Oh yeah, I see the rivets and orange colored grommets. They could be riveted standoffs with nuts on the other end to hold the frame on.

That would make it a lot easier to work on it.

Anyway, I reread the other thread too and, to address the cartridge/arm/stylus issue, the way that works is the black cartridge snaps into the white plastic clip. You can see, on the front of the white clip, a rectangular opening and a tab on the cartridge clips into that and is also held at the back of the white clip. To release the cartridge, you pry the white clip toward the front of the arm and the black cartridge will fall out. Then you can remove the leads with a small needle nose pliers. The white clip is hinged and moves up and down.

I'm almost sure that's an Astatic 133 or 483 cartridge. They both use the same shell. There may be other Astatic models that use that shell too.

Joe, the arrangement with the floating cartridge means that the arm, itself, isn't resting right on the cartridge, doesn't it? Doesn't the arm lower to a certain point and then the white bracket lets the cartridge down to the record? And then the weight sticking out of the front of the arm provides the actual VTF? I've seen similar arrangements on some Magnavox Astro Sonics.

Doug.

 

He needs to check the basics first before he starts worrying over manuals, parts and motor overhauls

Just sayin'

 

If the motor shaft is actually stopping, however, that's a problem.

I agree he should bone up on turntable/changer construction, particularly his own model.

Doug