A long letter from Murry Wilson to his son Brian, 1965

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Yorick, Oct 31, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RobMac

    RobMac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boonville, MO.
    Interestingly, while both Brian and Dennis say that Murry abused them, Carl is on the record (via a deposition in the Love vs. Wilson songwriting lawsuit) as saying that Murry never hit anyone.

    Honestly, I'll buy Brian's and Dennis' accounts. This letter and the Rhonda tape are too damning to dismiss.
     
  2. RobMac

    RobMac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boonville, MO.
    The person who originally posted this on the Smiley Smile board got the link for it from a friend who works at the Hard Rock. He claims there is quite a bit of Murry material including documents from his divorce from Audree.
     
  3. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    I think it was more from being fired as their manager, IIRC.

    I'm glad you mentioned The Sunrays...for those of you of the opinion that Murray Wilson made The Beach Boys, that The Beach Boys would never have gotten anywhere without Murray Wilson, etc., one listen to The Sunrays "Andrea" album should disabuse you of such notions. This was the direction MW would have had The Beach Boys go had Brian not divorced himself from MW's dippy control.

    Don't get me wrong--The Sunrays were a group of talented singers and their two hits "Andrea" and "I Live For The Sun" are undisputed classics of the genre. But that album...oh, man. The MW hand of schmaltz is all over this album. And early 1966, at least as far as poprock went, was not the time for schmaltz.

    Again, these guys were great singers. I don't want to dismiss the talent they had. But having that talent managed and produced by Murray Wilson may have gotten their foot in the door (with their singles) but that was it. Sad.

    And what would have happened to The Beach Boys in the middle of 1963, with The Beatles right around the corner, had Brian Wilson listened to MW regarding Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Jan Berry, etc? Granted, "Little Deuce Coupe", "Shut Down" and the other car songs may be viewed as trite in light of later developments in pop rock, but had The Beach Boys gone the Lawrence Welk direction MW would have had them do would have been nails in the coffin for the band.

    I believe I read somewhere that Brian Wilson banned MW from sessions and fired him as The Beach Boys manager during the sessions for "I Get Around", the band's first No. 1 and one of the greatest singles ever. Apparently, MW thought it was crap and wasn't afraid to tell Brian so.

    Want to know what would have happened to The Beach Boys had Brian listened? Check out The Sunrays "Andrea" lp.

    Dale
     
  4. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Throughout the letter, Murry keeps referring to Brian wanting to take the "cool" path - it just illustrates the generation gap between father and son - I've heard part of that infamous session tape, and Murry keeps telling Brian to "syncopate" "Help Me, Rhonda," and he sings to illustrate his idea, and it is indeed a very Lawrence Welk sensibility.
     
  5. True. Also Carl Wilson suggested that Murry become The Renegades' manager and introduced him to the band. Murry thought The Renegades name was too rough and changed their name to The Sunrays.

    I personally don't think Andrea is that bad an album, but the time and musical trends made the success of a new surf/sunshine band highly unlikely.

    Murry and Rick Henn also wrote an absolutely beautiful song, "Won't You Tell Me" for The Beach Boys. The Beach Boys didn't use it but a marvelous demo sung by Rick Henn with backing by Dennis Wilson was released on the Vintage Rays boxset.

    :righton:The Sunrays were very talented. Artistically Andrea was sort of a low point in their career. Their output as The Renegades rocks. Rick Henn was also involved in the production of American Spring's marvelous album.
     
  6. RobMac

    RobMac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boonville, MO.
    As much as Murry apologists like to bring up the fact that Rick Henn did later work with the Beach Boys, it must be pointed out there had to have been condecension directed toward the Sunrays from the Boys. Rick Henn tells a story that is recalled in the Peter Carlin book of Dennis getting him (Henn) drunk and then getting a call from Murry saying "I can't manage you boys if you insist on hanging out with Hollywood phonies".

    You could also point out that Brian did wrote with Henn - "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" being the most prominent example. Henn, in an interview with Endless Summer Quarterly notes that the Boys (in particular Mike) never took the song seriously and it remained unfinished until some edit work done in the 90's made it "complete". The song was up for the GV box set in '93 but Carl vetoed the track because he flubbed one word of his lead vocal. I'm suspicious of that - I wonder if the brothers hated the fact that Murry took a band and tried to create his own Beach Boys (weren't the Renegades an R & B/garage band when Murry took them on?).
     
  7. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Senior Member

    I'm not sure people who don't vehemently dislike people like Murry or Mike Love should be branded "apologists".

    Seems a bit too strong, IMO...
     
  8. Koptapad

    Koptapad Forum Resident

    Not much in that tape, almost yawn inducing. Imagine Roger Waters berating Wright about his expected producer credits on The Wall or making Nick Mason do Two Suns in The Sunset over and over when it was obvious he couldn't? How about Dylan's mind games in the studio changing tempos, keys, and songs structures after rehearsing and agreeing to one version, then changing everything during the live take with dagger stares if the musicians couldn't follow? Spector shooting guns in the studio vs. Murry's "I'm a genius too Brian" nasty comment?
     
  9. RobMac

    RobMac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boonville, MO.
    I wasn't trashing Mike in this thread. I was going after Murry. I'm just astounded that there are people defending him in this thread.
     
  10. johnny33

    johnny33 New Member

    Location:
    usa
    i listened to the tape of the help me rhonda session. the blog said murry wilson was loaded. has this been confirmed? i didnt notice in the session if he was. the tape until the the end sounds like a typical father probably from that era. all those boys, all that fame and pressure comes across on the tapes as some pretty young kids. which they were. he was right about them being flat in places. but man those are some complicated harmonies they are attempting. brian shrill? soften it up al? murry definitely wasnt getting the characteristic of the Beach Boys sound for some reason. old fashioned i guess. but he heard the hits so its weird that he wasnt moving along with them and their sound.

    Were they getting lazy? dont know, he may have had a point. dont know what their work ethic was before this session. just like the old saying goes :"never go into business with family member". Having his father there probably was a disaster in the making. at the end the pasive aggressive behavior and despiration is pretty pitiful and i guess brian was done cowing down. hard to make a complete picture of their total relationship from a snap shot like that though. however, if murry did do the things such as make brian deficate in a plate in front of the family( huh??) or the other stuff and was as they say what a sad man he was.
     
  11. I can sort of understand the hatred for Murry Wilson expressed by some in this thread but try to put it in context. I've listened to the Rhonda tape and it's quite unpleasant like most family spats are. I've experienced far worse in my own life but there was no tape recorder running. If this is too damning to dismiss, then how about the statutory rapes, arsons, sister-in-law wooing, pushing of hard drugs on adolescent daughters, refusal to help children dying of cancer, etc. that some of The Beach Boys are guilty of? We forgive them because we love their music. Murry is not so fortunate. We can heap blame on Murry since he was the cause of his children's problems, but Murry's childhood was probably worse.
     
    yesstiles likes this.
  12. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    I don't hate Murry Wilson, nor place heaps of blame on him.

    Like everyone else, he had his good qualities and his not-so-good qualities.

    I agree that there would not have been a Beach Boys as we knew them without his presence. Brian Wilson's talent was such that he would have had some kind of musical career no matter what but it was Murry's connections that got their foot in the door at Capitol and his persistence that polished their act and sound to where it was better than anybody else's in that genre.

    I can't really see the Beach Boys sticking together long enough to grind it out in the clubs for years like most bands had to do to make it then. A few station wagon tours was all it took for Al Jardine to (temporarily) quit and go back to dental school.
     
  13. Drawer L

    Drawer L Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Long Island
    Doesn't anyone else think that it's NOT a coincidence that all the people that Murray sites as 'bad influnces' on Brian,are all Jewish??(First thing I noticed...)
     
  14. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    That occurred to me too, but since it was a bit obtuse I decided not to mention it. I don't want to make allegations of bigotry unless there is real proof. As far as I know there is no smoking gun.
     
  15. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Which of the Beach Boys' L.A. peers had to grind it out in clubs for years in order to make it? The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Mamas & Papas, etc. all got record deals shortly after their formation and became famous through radio play, not through touring. Admittedly, those bands had members who had paid their dues in other bands or as solo performers, but, in the 60s, it was not impossible to get signed and get your record on the radio without paying years of dues in the clubs.
     
  16. I don't keep up much with other people's religion but were Audree Wilson, Mike Love, Gary Usher and Jan Berry Jewish?
     
  17. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Those groups you mentioned all hit after the British Invasion though....when rock and roll and folk-rock were really taking off in popularity. The biggest artists on Capitol when the Beach Boys signed with them were The Kingston Trio.

    How many actual groups (as opposed to solo singers) back in 1961-62 got signed up that quickly before having any real hits? "Surfin" was a local hit in Los Angeles only, IIRC...then before you know it, suddenly the Beach Boys are signed to Capitol Records. Carl Wilson was 16 years old; he probably couldn't even play in bars then.
     
  18. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    No, but David Marks and Marilyn Rovell are! This theory seems a bit speculative.
     
  19. Drawer L

    Drawer L Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Long Island
    Jan Berry,Gary Usher,Lou Adler,Loren Schwartz all are/were.....
    I've heard the issue came up more than more.(Marilyn Rovell,as well....)
     
  20. Drawer L

    Drawer L Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Long Island
    Forgot David Marks.-I'm just saying,that it's pretty odd that every person that Murray sites is Jewish....
     
  21. PhilCohen

    PhilCohen Forum Resident

    No, but many of Brian's music biz buddies were, specifically David Anderle, Lou Adler, Don Kirshner etc., and some people with more direct involvement in Brian's music, including The Honeys and one-third of the orchestral musicians on "Pet Sounds". And the oft-repeated story of how Hal Blaine was introduced to drumming by a Catholic priest is taken out of context: as Harold Belsky, he attended a Hebrew school, but would visit a Catholic church on the opposite side of the street to watch their drum corps rehearse. See the complete quote in its' original context in the book "Rolling Stone:The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time", page 105.
     
  22. PhilCohen

    PhilCohen Forum Resident

    Marilyn Rovell is indeed Jewish, but David Marks has described himself as Italian-American, or stating that he had an Italian-American father.

    But it's worth noting that when Brian went to Las Vegas to marry Marilyn Rovell, that he realised that he had forgotten to take his birth certificate with him, and there was a 48 hour postponement before his family would send the birth certificate. The Wilson family stated(back then) that their objections to Brian marrying Marilyn(and the reason they were reluctant to send the birth certificate) was not because she was Jewish, but because she was only 16 years old.(Brian was 24). Murry reportedly cautioned Brian that he was going to have Jewish children, to which Brian reportedly said "I don't care". Murry needn't have worried. Carnie later became a born again Christian.
    But it's worth noting that the Wilson family had no objections to Dennis marrying a Jewish girl, particularly because Dennis' previous girlfriend was a heavily tattooed Mexican motorcycle chick.

    The only notable prejudice that some Beach Boys and Wilson family members had was a discomfort with and towards gays, which is not surprising, given that these were a bunch of highly macho dudes. Some have claimed that a suspicion that lyricist Jack Reilly & recording engineer Stephen Desper MIGHT be gay is what caused The Beach Boys associations with them to end. And,of course during the highly bootlegged Michigan State 1966 concert, there are a few between-song jokes told in a mock-gay lisp.
     
  23. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    It wasn't at Michigan State. It was at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Hill Auditorium. October 1966.
    I was there. The Standells opened.
    Honest.
     
  24. PhilCohen

    PhilCohen Forum Resident

    You(and Capitol, on "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" liner notes) are correct. It's the unofficial releases(of the two complete shows) which are incorrect. By the way, do you recall, if Brian joined the group onstage during "Johnny B.Goode" in the second set? Some people claim that he came out of the recording truck to join the group for that one song.
     
  25. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    My recollection (which may be faulty) is that, at the end of the show, he came out and was introduced, to a standing ovation, but did not play. It was a remarkable end to a pretty amazing night of music.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine