A sacrilegious Sgt.Pepper thread...enter at your own risk

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Beagle, Jun 28, 2002.

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  1. Beagle

    Beagle Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Caveat: This thread is intended for those who did not find The Beatles Sgt. Pepper Lonely Hearts Club Band to be a very good record. You can post your comments here as to why you did not like the record. If you are a Beatles fanatic and you consider Sgt. Pepper to be one of their great albums, or one of the greatest albums period, then you may wish to stop reading now, as this contains comments or opinions that some viewers may find offensive. However, you are still free to post your opinions. I just did not want to start a war, just take stock of others who may not have enjoyed this record.

    Like you're gonna stop reading now hehe..

    I never found Sgt Pepper to be any great shakes as an album. I just thought that there was too much wank on that record. I found it rather spotty, with only She's Leaving Home and A Day In The Life really outstanding. Most of the record sounded like a pop group whose members were high on drugs trying to be clever. Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite, Within You, Without You, and Good Morning, Good Morning don't even qualify as bad filler. They rely on effects and gimmicks rather than well written songs and passionate performances. And to think Reprise shunned Wilco's latest because they wouldn't change some of the tunes.

    Where are the kind of great songs like I Feel Fine, A Hard Days Night, I Want To Hold Your Hand or She Loves You?

    And listen to the backing vocals on She's Leaving Home and Getting Better. They sound completely out of tune, sloppy and wimpy. How could George Martin be doing his job and let awful vocal takes end up on a finished record? And A Little Help From My Friends might have been listenable if someone had kindly asked Ringo to step away from the microphone and go back to his drums or better still, home. I never liked Ringo as a drummer. I always had this sneaking suspicion that he was told exactly what to play, parts were inserted with tweezers and his whole performance always sounded stiff and unnatural.

    The mix is terrible. Drums sound like cardboard boxes, the bass sounds like an elastic band, sticking out of one channel like a sore thumb. There is no sense of a rhythm section, just individual things bouncing all over the place. Backing vocals almost drown out lead vocals. There is no excuse for this when you compare to Bill Porters work on the much earlier Roy Orbison stuff or Glyn John's sound on Ruby Tuesday. Very sad, especially since Geoff Emerick is one of the worlds great recording engineers. But he must have dozed off behind the board during these sessions.

    All in all, perhaps the most overrated album of all time, just ahead of Beggars Banquet.

    Abbey Road was much better, more cohesive and the band rocked, and George Harrison provided some tunes instead of Ravi Shankar tributes. The Ringo problem remained, but what are you gonna do...:D

    OK...

    Kill me
     
  2. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I've always thought Sgt Pepper's was hearlded as being brilliant for two reasons: 1) Stereo and 2) Concept album. It's a "priceless" piece of progressive rock work. Was it also the first "Prog Rock" album?

    Wonderful what drugs can do, huh?

    As for the songs.... well some were sort of weak. I'll leave it at that.
     
  3. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Dave,

    Are you sure you weren't listening to the Bee Gee's version of the album?

    Seriously, of course you and me and all of us are entitled to our own opinions but are you nutz?! I'm only kidding again...

    For me, that old Pepper album is a wonderful experience. I never get tired of it. I enjoy the almost tongue & cheek quality to the whole piece. I find it amazing that the Beatles went from 'Revolver' to something like this. It's almost like they needed to re-invent themselves to break away from whatever creative/personal ruts they might have been finding themselves in (1966 was a tough year). I think they took long individual vacations before working on Pepper (George in India, John in a movie, Paul working on a soundtrack, Ringo being Ringo) and maybe this was their musical vacation from just being the Beatles. I really don't know but I always find this work very refreshing. Also, I think the album was very well recorded...

    Todd
     
  4. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Sign of the times. Whimsical, thought provoking art, tied in with a concept which was unheard of with most rock music. It was almost a celebration in happiness, love and a personal reflection of the four at their peak of how they cooperated with each other. After this album, it was bickering and fighting. Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were the yoke of creative power of this, but Sgt Pepper as a whole has simple songs done intelligently.

    One of the 1st albums that I heard that could be concidered a listening experience from end to end. You don't just stop at Mr. Kite or the Reprise. No album is without its quirk. Nonetheless, it's one of my favorite albums of all time. Every time I see the cover art and carefully put out the album, I feel happy to do it. It's certainly a cloud-breaker on a rainy day. It's brilliance, innocence and beauty.
     
  5. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Very well said, Sckott!
     
  6. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    I will report this post to a Gort :mad:
     
  7. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Great album - I think so.

    Overrated? - I think so.
     
  8. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Beagle can give me his copy of Pepper anyday.

    My girlfriend is more into Creedence, Motown and 70's soul, and doesn't like the Beatles.

    One more reason to wash dishes with a walkman on.
     
  9. Ronflugelguy

    Ronflugelguy Resident Trumpet Geek

    Location:
    Modesto,Ca
    Concept album, very daring for its time, as a whole great, Art - cover, great, so what if a few of the songs were weak. Still great!
    One of the top ten rock albums of all time. Sorry if anyone disagrees............not really!
     
  10. Joseph

    Joseph Senior Member

    I prefer Big Daddy's version of the entire Sgt. Pepper album. :D
     
  11. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Bill Cosby did a cover version of the track Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in '68. It smokes the original :p
     
  12. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Holy Zoo,

    Is Beagle a troll? Can we have him banned?

    Shock over. I take it back.

    Actually you make an interesting point. Sgt Pepper's a great album by most standards. George Martin made the comment in his book on SP that if you add Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields (which were recorded during the Sgt P sessions but used instead for the single) and take out two lesser songs (Fixing a Hole and Getting Better (I think)). You would have an amazing album.
    Sgt Pepper may not be the Beatles' best but it's miles above anything else.
     
  13. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Guess you had to be there.. it was so "fresh" in '67. It was also the product of their scandalous decision not tour anymore - surely taken as the sign of death back then.

    Poor George - it seems that "Within' You Without You" may be the most criticized Beatle track aside from Rev # 9. If you view this track for it's hit potential, either as a rock or pop record, it's gonna score poorly. Viewing the arrangement and musical performance it is a stroke of genius - especially the instrumental "middle" of the song with the eastern instruments blending into and working their way around the western string section. I always have, and still do, find that interplay musically exciting. I don't think such a strong blend of Eastern and Western music was ever performed before, or since.
     
  14. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Mr Beagle,

    You are declaring war here. With a Little Help works perfectly with Ringo's warm homey voice. It was meant to!
    Ringo was the perfect drummer for the Beatles. Most people here know why - he plays the songs etc. He also has the respect of drummers and other musicians for the way he played. He's a master of taste. At least you came up with your own solution.
     
  15. John B

    John B Once Blue Gort,<br>now just blue.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    WYWY has is also regarded as the precursor to world music - something taken for granted now, but bold and original then. I agree Al that musically it gets top marks. I don't listen to it as much as many of the other songs though.
     
  16. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member


    Judging by the Beatles songs that you reference, it's obvious that you prefer the more radio friendly pop selections. Sgt. Pepper was the work of a matured group working to expand the realm of rock music. All music is a matter of personal taste and I can respect that.

    Now when you call Beggars overrated, I know that you out of you mind an apparent escapee from the psychiatric ward or a missed placed Nsync fan.
     
  17. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    I agree Tommy. I think Dave is a very ill person and needs some meds very pronto. It's okay Dave, it's okay. When you see the man in the white coat coming, you better run because it ain't the Good Humor man... Can anyone here FEDEX some lithium & a first pressing UK mono of 'Sgt. Pepper' to Dave... He's a few sandwichs short of a picnic!!

    Todd

    P.S. I'm only joking of course. Shhhh... Pass me the needle, he's looking the other way...
     
  18. Sam

    Sam Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Beagle, you ask where are the hits like "A hard day's night, She loves you, etc. Well, it seems to me you love the "early" Beatles. No doubt, there is quite a difference between "A Hard days night" and Sgt. Pepper. My kids notice it and sometimes respond negatively to the later songs. But let's face it, that's what makes the Beatles so great. They did not continue putting out 10 lp's of a Hard Days night type material. They could have continued like that and sold millions utilizing that early style. But they grew. And grew well. I'd venture a guess to say that you also don't like many of the songs on the white lp either? They broke ground with Sgt. Pepper. They did things on that lp that no one had done at that time. Today, it's easy to say "Big deal" when listening to it. But for 1967, it was HUGE. As for me, I enjoy it as much as I enjoy Rubber Soul or Help. It is different. Now maybe you have a problem with them being influenced by drugs. I don't condone drug use, but hey, in 1967 a lot of experimenting was taking place.

    How I wish SOME band TODAY would give the world an lp that is as daring, imaginative and musically satisfying as Sgt. Pepper.
     
  19. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored

    I think Beagle makes some valid points (and this from someone who has both stereo and mono versions on CD). IMHO, it began the period when they were no longer a group but four individuals. Just my 2 cents.
     
  20. proufo

    proufo Forum Resident

    Being absolutely ignorant on music, I won't go beyond "I like it" re the musical worth of Pepper's. I wouldn't need to take it to the proverbial desert island as every sound is indelebly ingrained in my brain.

    Being ignorant on most other things too, I will quote from Patrick Snyder-Scumpy (People and things that went before - Crawdaddy June 1973) regarding its sociological value (best ever essay on The Beatles):

    After more months of quiet, at the beginning of the Summer Newsweek called Love, it came and everybody followed. With eight Beatles on the cover, indicating an unheard-of awareness of roles and postures, Sgt. Pepper swept into our lives like a cyclone of flower petals pushed by a wind from another dimension. The album compelled you to listen in a whole new way because it was a coherent cycle of songs that illuminated a series of interrelated but individual stunning vignettes. It took all of our impulses and emotions that had been stirring in the garrets of New York and the parks of San Francisco and pumped them out into the world. On an implicit level to which the young people intuitively connected, it offered an alternative set of values based on generational ethnocentrism and the wholly fellowship of the psychedelic sacrament. But explicitly, it was simply a splendid time is guaranteed for all.

    Without doubt, Sgt. Pepper was the most influential record album ever released. In three months, it sold two and a half million copies, permanently changing rock's emphasis from the single to the album, as it cracked open the doors of perception for all those who sat blissfully enthralled in its intrincate tapestry of images and sounds. In December of 1967, 60% of American college students identified this album and/or John Lennon as the single most important influence of their lives. From a pop podium of inequaled prominence, The Beatles promulgated a subversive vision to a ready-made audience of millions of fertile young minds. The result was a metaphysical Beatlemania, the same sort of frenzied devotion that had ocurred in '64, on a much more sophisticated level.

    The new role The Beatles assumed on Sgt. Pepper, as artists/messiahs chronicling their age, was transferred, for better and worse, to the music in general. In an environment shot through with the first rushes of acid optimism, we turned to our electric troubadors for answers to the most profound of questions, and our budding minds burst forth into flowers that grew so incredibly high.

    End of quote.
     
  21. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    I also think you can't blame the drugs for 'Sgt. Pepper'. Look at a lot of today's bands. A lot of them have taken drugs and I don't hear them producing a 'Sgt. Pepper'...

    Todd
     
  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I am one of those who don't think "Pepper" was any great album, just a nice little collection of songs with some filler. The filler? "Fixing A Hole", "Being For The Benifit Of Mr. Kite", and the awful, long, boring "Within You Without You", or whatever the name is. They should have lit a fire under George to come up with something better.

    One thing, though, this album sucks in stereo. If that's all you've ever heard, no wonder you have such a negative opinion about it! The mono version, while not technically perfect, has a brisker pace. It just moves right along amd sounds more "together".

    The British version of "Revolver", the "White Album", and "Abbey Road" are their best, IMO.
     
  23. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Sgt. Pepper

    Dave & Friends,

    Thoughtful thread! Sgt. Pepper has never been my favorite Beatles album. I like it. I enjoy it. I appreciate it. But, not my favorite. I see it as a creative art piece reflective of where the Beatles were at the time when it was released and somewhat, their answer to Pet Sounds. I rarely listen to it. But, I am biased in my opinion, for two reasons:

    1) I have such a strong singles orientation for music in that time period and there were no big singles from Sgt. Pepper.

    2) The recording and mix is just too busy for me to really stand-up and shout--this is outstanding!

    Still, it brings back memories that feel pleasant about from those times. I was 16 when it was released. It was THE hot album in the Summer of 1967 and we all talked about it.

    Bob
     
  24. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Oh yeah, Grant?! Well what about 'Rubber Soul'? Especially the UK mono. I think we'll have to step outside on this one. You bring your CD player and I'll bring my TT...

    My serious point is that the Beatles were such a wonderful band. They didn't remain pigeon-holed with their sound (like a lot of other bands/blands do/did sadly) and people love different albums for very different personal reasons. They got variety!! They were and are the Season-all salt of rock/pop!!
     
  25. jroyen

    jroyen Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I disagree.

    I LOVE Sgt. Peppers, and the place it holds in music history, even today. "A Day in the Life" might be one of rock's greatest collaborations - the quintessential contrast between Paul's optimism and John's cynicism. And, "With a Little Help from My Friends" might contain some of Paul's best bass work. I even love "Within You, Without You" and the pure atmosphere of "Good Morning, Good Morning."

    But I also enjoy reading differing opinions. :)
     
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