A smoother Sound

Nice of you to warn a new member, I wish someone had warned me 20 years ago!
Attenuation is an issue promoted by Ray Kimber and his U.K. chum Russ Andrews, however when I told Grover the fact that I had been using these type of cables as recommended by the Kimber U.K. distributor - he virtually laughed, so I guess having converted to Grover product and being much happier than I was with Kimber stuff, I would tend to take his word for it.

 

The Kimber cables are way too bright for most systems. I think this is especially true with entry level systems. Most of the entry level systems do suffer from a thinner and brighter sound. If you put a very detailed cable (Kimber) you end up adding to the problem. On the other side is Cardas. If you have a really bright system you may be very happy with one of the Cardas cables. If you don't like it that warm, then you can try a Harmonic Technology or something of that range. Find a good dealer who will let you audition a couple different cables and you should be able to find one that works. The cables can make a big difference in your system.

 

Room treatment first, if you can.
Have you thought about a combo SACD/CD player?
I agree with Dave, SS does not necessarily mean bright. I have both SS and tube amps and I go back and forth between them depending on my mood.

 

Hi VA,

He has one w/ the 3910.... not sure why he has a second cdp? No question, the 3910 is harsh out of the box BUT it is just begging to be modded. That would probably resolve ALL concerns.

Take care,
Jeffrey

 

I had the Nad cdp before I got the 3910, and although there is not that great a deal between the two in sound, for me anyway, I do prefer the Nad for cd's.

What mod's are there for the 3910?


By the way, the toilet paper tweak really works a treat on the harsh cd's, although 'the other half' think's I'm losing the plot. Although I believe it to be better than her first assumption when she noticed various boxes of tissues around the house.

I am becoming more convinced it may not be my system so much as badly mastered cd's, more reading on this site has certainly proved i'm not the only one who feels this way.

I've just ordered some grover interconnects and speaker cable from recommendations elsewhere on this site.

Once again, many thanks for all your suggestions.

 

Hi,

There are many levels of mods for the 3910. The extreme/best example is...

http://www.aplhifi.com/DENON.html

Take care,
Jeffrey

 

I've got mostly Grover cables in my system--a combination of MKIII and URs. Never had any Kimber stuff so I can't compare.

I just received my Rothwells today to help tame too much gain from my tube preamp into my McCormack amp. They're running in now; maybe I'll start a separate thread about how they sound in my system.

John K.

 

I went with Tube Research Labs for mine. It's not too crazy money compared to some of the other all-out modders, and the sound is very detailed, yet smooth too.

John K.

 

Hi John,

I hear ya..... many people think i am crazy for spending soooooo much money on a cdp mod. I believe that most professional modders can upgrade this, and almost all, stock players to a much better level.

Take care,
Jeffrey

 

I had this mod done to my 3910 and it is amazing!

 

Hi,

No question.... it's the BEST there is!

Take care,
Jeffrey

 

You can always run back and forth to the speaker with tissue in hand.

 

I think i'd go thru too many rolls with my Maggies - so I "fixed" the harsh CD problem with isolation, room treatments, speaker position and IC!

Hey, there's always vinyl..

 

was tweaking my power amp last night...went from a deflated inner tube....was outta air and replace it with 4 happy balls cut in half put at the corners on the lower shelf with the rounded side facing up. That smooths the sound without loosing the high freq IMO, and the bass is really nice fast kick drum and nice snare. Happy balls are green with a happy face for about a $1 each. Tried them under my Audible Illusions M3A but the pre-amp was too light for the balls to work well. My power amp VTL is about 60lbs.
Try using 3 half balls under your CD player, may work for you.


all the best


sean

 

update .... 3 half balls work better than 4.

sean

 

forget about the happy balls just ordered some Herbie footers....happy balls change after a few hours with a load on them...

sound good for a while then it all disappears.

 

That's a good one.
Seriously, Vibrapods collapse over time too.

 

Yeah, but Oak cone feet don't!

 

For what it's worth, I suffered for years too with almost exactly the sound you're talking about. Unfortunately, finding that 'holy grail' balance between detail & immediacy and warmth & sweetness is not simple. In my case, I achieved it mainly through very careful selection of electronics. CD source and preamp are very vital in this regard and my end result is a Marantz SA-11 CD / SACD player and my own design SS pre and power amps. If solid state is your preference then I would recommend a Musical Fidelity A3.2cr preamp or if you can get hold of one and funds permit then a 10 year old Krell KSP-7B. Both produce the subtle and sweet harmonic signature that you're after and will go a long way towards your holy grail sound. A less expensive Marantz CD player will suffice if you can't afford the SA-11 or SA-15 but you will lose a small amount of resolution and finesse. Speakers (even with flat response) can produce similar hardness and 'etching' of the treble to that of some SS amps but it's best to go as far as you can with electronics first before throwing the speakers out or changing the crossover caps etc... If it's just a case of excessive treble then the tissue paper will work fine, or if your room is fairly dead you can adjust the toe-in (angle) of the speakers. Try hand clapping in the room and if you hear the claps ringing on after you stop then you probably need some additional sound absorbers. I use a foam blanket on the front wall and some side diffusers, but in most cases wives and girlfriends will determine the extent of what you can do in that regard. If you have a wife and a girlfriend as I did then one day all your problems will suddenly disappear and you can do as you like.

Experimentation with cables will give you only minor changes in the overall scheme of things and as an amplifier designer I can tell you that the changes you may obtain from changing interconnects pale into insignificance alongside seemingly small design or component changes within an amplifier. In other words cables are the last point of system tuning. Lastly, from experience even quite bright treble can be completely unfatigueing as long as it's clean and sweet, and you can achieve the balance you want without throwing away any detail. In fact I now hear hidden detail and and soundstage ambience that I never had when the system was 'in your face' etched and bright sounding.

Good luck in your quest, and try not to get to tangled up with the sometimes conflicting advice given. At the end of the day we all hear things slightly differently and it's a matter of finding your own holy grail, and from experience it will invariably differ from everyone elses.

 

A really cheap, easy tweak to try is to put a .47 or 1 ohm resistor in series with each speaker ( connect to the speaker cable and either the amp or the speaker). This will make the damping factor similar to a tube amp, and may smooth out the sound.

Available at R. Shack for less than a buck each, I believe.

This is an especially great tweak for someone using a SS amp and vintage speakers (which were designed for tube equipment which has different output impedance (and therefore damping factor) than SS amps.

See below link and due a search on the vintage asylum for damping factor posts by "Bold Eagle". The guy knows what he is talking about.

Info on damping factor / series resistors with speakers

 

You could insert one of the original, can-shaped Musical Fidelity X-10D (NOTE: NOT the x-10v3, which has a much more subtle effect on sound quailty) tube buffers after your CD player, or in between your pre-amp and amp, or in your tape loop, and it should take a little bit of the edge off, and give you a little more warmth. These can be had used pretty cheaply.

 

Cables can make a big difference actually. It depends on system components but often overly analytical systems can be the result of bright and detailed cable. It is also a relative bargain tweak.

 

I agree with Lee in this regards. Cables can and do have a bigger difference than most seem to know or will admit. However, even this is moot point if you're trying to compensate for bad mastering on your source be it CD or Vinyl.

 

Our only Gort with a foot fetish.