A Special custom Grado Labs EPOCH phono cartridge IN MONO is here. What albums can be played on it?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Bob Levi of the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society took me aside a few meetings ago and told me that a special Grado Labs EPOCH cartridge in monaural had been made for him by John Grado. Bob said it sounded so wonderful, his old mono albums were showcased in a new and exciting way. He called it the best he'd ever heard his old albums sound. Bob is not prone to exaggeration so I believed him.

    John Grado offered to make me the same thing and I am so curious as to what it will sound like on my many vintage mono cut albums. He told me he could make me one and it would take six weeks or so. Today is delivery day and I'm excited about it.

    Rich audiophiles only can afford a 12k phono cartridge 'cause it's silly expensive, but a true vintage LP collector with the big bucks is really the only customer for an EPOCH grade mono cartridge. And I've never known a collector who has big bucks or who would spend it on an expensive needle instead of buying more records, so I'm curious.

    What will it sound like on my old mono cut albums from the 1950's and 60's? Watch this thread! Dave Shreve is coming on Saturday to install it on the VPI Avenger Standard so I'll have two Epochs on the machine, the stereo arm and the mono arm. Will be an adventure. I have a fine sounding Grado Prestige ME+ elliptical mono cartridge ($150.00 list) that I've been using on and off but Bob Levi tells me that nothing he's ever heard compares to the Grado Labs Epoch in monaural so we'll see.

    I guess you have to ask yourself how many true mono cut records do I own (not mono music cut on a stereo lathe in 1978), and is it worth it to get a dedicated mono cartridge for them?

    Stay tuned.


    grado-lineage-series-epoch-cartridge-1.jpg
     
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  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    How many of you actually use a MONO cartridge to play your mono record albums? I'm curious?
     
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  3. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    I run a Ortofon 2m se on my MMF-5 for Mono Playback.

    Also, super exciting waiting for a new toy like that.

    I have been getting upgrades delivered for about a week now...New Phono Pre set to arrive tomorrow.

    Looking forward to hearing your impressions. Hopefully there will be more setup advice / tips, too.
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That's a nice cart, easy to set up.
     
  5. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    I like it a lot. Came from the Classifieds, here.

    And yeah, with those Sounsmith Speed Posts it took no time at all to set up.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Do you know the list price?
     
  7. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I have a VPI HW-19 Mk.4 turntable with Zeta tonearm that I have dedicated for playing mono records, having installed a Benz-Micro Ebony-LP-Mono. This cart was $5000 about 10 years ago, but has been new-in-the-box until just about 3 months ago.
     
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  8. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    When I bought it here I looked on eBay and they were going around $525 or so. NIB from Euro Dealers.
     
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  9. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    I'm running a Miyajima Zero A, (1 mil), mounted on a SME M2-12R on a fully restored 1954 Garrard 301, I plan on getting a Zero B, (0.7 mil), to use with my Garrard 401 and perhaps get even better performance out of sixties mono LPs, although the Zero A does a fantastic job regardless of any consensus that a 0.7 mil stylus is the correct choice for later monos.
     
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  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I guess you have to ask yourself how many true mono cut records do I own (not mono music cut on a stereo lathe in 1978), and is it worth it to get a dedicated mono cartridge for them?
    beatles vj.jpg ricky.jpg walker.jpg sonny.jpg
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That was a lot of dough for 10 years ago (still is). I wonder how many of those sold? Would love to hear it sometime.
     
  12. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    When I started collecting Jazz I would instinctively buy both the mono and stereo versions, assuming I came across both, but in the UK the monos for Jazz, Soul and popular music are generally more common than the stereos, I think mono LPs were cheaper, in the UK records were still something of a luxury item, with price maintenance and sales taxes and most UK buyers didn't have stereo capable decks until some years after 1958. I have no idea how the actual sales figures broke down, but for reasonably big selling LPs issued between '58 and '65 where I've handled a lot of copies over the years monos can outnumber stereos by anywhere from 5 to 1 to 10 to 1 or even greater amounts so I have a lot of mono LPs on HMV, London Atlantic, Esquire, Tamla Motown etc., it just took me a long time to get a dedicated mono deck to rival my stereo playback. If I was a serious Classical buyer I'd be very tempted to pick up some of the monos that can be had for £1 or £2 while the stereos fetch three or four figures, it's the same performance after all.
     
  13. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    OK, I'll bite. How many do you own? Can you find them easily? Are they all in great condition?
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I guess about 1000 including 45s. All mostly mint.
     
  15. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    I do, for my '50s and '60s records, though. I've played some reissues of '50s mono material pressed in the early '70s and it didn't make any difference. With something like my 1966 UK Columbia press of The Most Of The Animals, huge difference, well beyond anything my preamp mono button or a double-y could produce. In fact, when I first heard that title with one of my mono Lyras, my reaction was similar to the reaction you said Bob Levi had. Not only did those old records sound new and fascinating, they revealed soundstage qualities I didn't know were possible in a mono recording.
     
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  16. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    The body looks beautiful.
     
  17. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Congratulations, I'm sure it's an amazing cartridge! I'd be interested to compare with a stereo cartridge in the same price range. I still have too few mono records for this to be a relevant option.
     
  18. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    I run a Miyajima Zero on a second arm and have found the experience to be revelatory. One of the biggest shocks to me was how much quieter a given record is when played with a mono cart vs. a stereo cart. It has also encouraged me to seek out more mono records. I only have a couple hundred at this point but for my education and better hunting experience I have a couple of questions regarding the comment, "true mono cut records......not mono music cut on a stereo lathe in 1978". How do you know if they are true mono cut records? Is it time related, as in prior to 1978 or is there some other way to tell? Does that mean that any mono LP made AFTER 1978 is NOT true mono? What about post 1978 reissues/remasters of older records? Are they "true mono"?
     
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  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    blonde.jpg @timztunz People have asked me about what a "true mono cut" record is and if all mono records from any era should be played with a dedicated mono cartridge. I've written about this before but I don't mind doing so again.

    Mono records were cut on mono lathes until 1968 when mono records were phased out in America. At that time some of the mono lathes in the mastering studios around the USA were removed, some weren't. (Happened later in the UK, Europe.)

    SO: If your record was cut after 1968 chances are it MIGHT have been cut on a stereo lathe with the mono tape played back in the stereo mode and prone to trouble if folded to monaural. Sometimes but not always. What I'm saying is: These records may or may not fold to mono correctly. Check first on your stereo needle. If the sound in A+B mono (with the stereo channels folded in together) is still pure, life is good. If it sounds phasey (like flanging) or loses the top end that way, it's not good and needs to be played back in stereo only, even if the music is in mono. Understand?

    And of course, the groove shape on a stereo cut mono record is different than a pure mono groove.

    It's a bit complicated.

    Also, if you can't afford or don't have a separate mono cartridge, play back your "true mono" records with the channels combined (push the mono button on your receiver or use a "double Y cord") to lose the pointless and distracting stereo groove noise. You'll be much happier.

    Note: Always play mono CD's in stereo. No need to combine channels; no groove noise to worry about.
     
  20. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Has that ME+ replaced the Shure M44 that I believe you preferred for mono use?

    I have a mono "Way Out West," but my copy looks like Tanya Harding skated all over it and then wacked it with a club. It's still the best-sounding mono record I've ever heard!
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I use the Shure for 78s (green) and 45s. The Grado is good for mono LPs.
     
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  22. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    Many thanks Steve. I'm understanding it better than I was, but still curious about something. What about mono originals well prior to 1968 but reissued and/or remastered much more recently. For example something like Miles Davis "Bag's Groove", I assume the original 1954 mono would be "true mono cut". But what about the Kevin Gray AP Prestige Mono Series version of it?

    I wish it were easier for me to "check first on your stereo needle". Based on how my gear and rack are situated it's a real PITA to get to where I could connect a double Y cord. :cry:
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No idea about now.

    When I cut a mono recording with Kevin Gray for vinyl, we would play back on a stereo machine and pick either the right or left channel (which ever had the least wear) and cut that channel to mono on a stereo lathe to the record. Assuming that 99% of people would be playing it back on a stereo cartridge, I think this was the best way to go. Especially for damaged mono tapes.

    So, the record would be essentially a stereo groove but you could safely combine to L+R mono without losing top end or it becoming like a wah wah pedal.
     
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  24. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    I totally agree that based on your assumptions that would be the way to go. Hope I'm not being a PITA, and most likely my questions are due to not understanding the process better, but does that mean that one of these newly mastered old monos would be better played with:
    a) Dedicated mono cart
    b) Double Y summed to one channel played with a stereo cart
    c) Stereo cart (not summed)
    d) Doesn't matter
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I cannot speak for other modern mono cuts, only the ones that I personally worked on. My cuts with Kevin (the Analogue Productions 45 RPM Greatest Jazz Of All Time, etc.) should be played with a conventional stereo cart. For less groove noise the music can be combined to mono using your Mono Button or a Double Y, combining the two channels to L+R and then redistributing them to two channels of fully summed playback (the conventional Double Y style).

    Or, just play back in stereo, the music will be fine and solid mono, but a pop or tic or any surface crackle will be in glorious stereo. :^)
     
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